AW: [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot! LVDT Side StickPrototype WORKS!

Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:41:47 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C2E1D6.12D8E350
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Re: [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot!  LVDT Side Stick Prototype
WORKS!Marv,

put me on the list for your stick base :-)

Cheers,

Marc
  -----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
  Von: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]Im Auftrag von Joseph Fagner
  Gesendet: Montag, 3. Marz 2003 16:48
  An: simpits-tech@simpits.org
  Betreff: RE: [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot! LVDT Side StickPrototype
WORKS!

  $1500 is high, but nothing I've done so far is cheap.  Will you make it if
I pay for it?  Not that I can pay for it at the moment, but if you'll make
it, I'll save for it and get it.  Let me explain my rationale to others who
may think I'm crazy.  What would the real thing cost?  A truck load more
that $1500, right?  Marv, I presume you wired it into the cougar's innards
as you had mentioned previously?  This alone is no small feat and well worth
the ease it will be to maintain the cougar's programmability for me, the end
user.  Now, consider the other mods it would take to get a Cougar to "feel"
good without the dead spots at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock.  There is a mod out
there for about $475 that will do this.  Add in the HE sensors for the stick
at $130 and you are now at $605.  But, you still have to mod the cougar
somehow to make it useful and out of the way of the instruments and you
still really won't have that realism.  I want maximum realism and I'm
willing to pay for it.  If you think about it, some of us drop $3000 on a
projector for the maximum visual realism, what would be the next thing in
line?  My opinion would be the HOTAS since that is where your hands and
thought will be a big chunk of time.  So, I don't think $1500 is an
unreasonable amount to ask for all the time and effort you have placed into
this.  So build away, I want one!  And damn, 1/1000 of a volt!  I can't even
imagine how wonderful it feels.

  Jay

  -----Original Message-----
  From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Marv De Beque
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 5:12 AM
  To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
  Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot! LVDT Side StickPrototype
WORKS!

  Jay,

  Well I just got it working last night and it ROCKS!!!!

  However, don't get too excited.   The cost of this baby is way out of site
(probably $1500).

  It is complex and the cost of the parts alone is $400, let alone the labor
to build it.

  Still, the performance is out of this world.  This thing has a noise and
jitter of under 1/1000 volt!  And that is on one of those bread boards.
Mechanically is feels great.  Recentering repeatability is about 1%.
Tastes great, too.  ;-)

  I just put the thread up at:

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=31723&goto=newpos
t

  Marv

  On 3/3/03 3:11 AM, "Joseph Fagner" <crease-guard@attbi.com> wrote:

  Sukit, I have the HE sensor on my stick (am currently awaiting the
throttle mod as I am getting pot spikes in the throttle as well!).  I could
go on and on about how great they are (they are worth the money, trust me).
GET THE MOD!!  My stick is as smooth as a baby's bottom and absolutely no
spiking whatsoever.  The HE sensors Cub pilot uses are supposedly rated for
15,000,000 cycles (probably live longer that I will).  Don't waste your time
or efforts on crappy pots that you will just have to change over and over
again.  In the long run, the HE sensors will be cheaper and save you a lot
of headaches.  Order both mods at once, as I have been waiting about 2-3
months for my throttle mod simply because Cub gets a ton of orders.  I have
two cougars, one of which will be completely HE sensors with Ian Johnston's
Uber cougar mod and the other I am planning on using with Marv's LVDT stick
base when he gets it done.  I am going to have Cub add on a second HE sensor
on my throttle mod when it's time for the throttle in my pit. Hope this
helps.

  Jay

  -----Original Message-----
  From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Sittisudjatum, Sukit
  Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 1:26 AM
  To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
  Subject: [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot!

  Considering the working hours I've been using it, the pots in my Cougar
set shouldn't have a well-known "spiking" problem!  But it happened to the
pot in my throttle last weekend.  I just noticed it when I can't get to the
idle position when I flew a DC-3 in MSFS2002.  Then, I tested it in Foxy
analyzer software, and accepted that there's a problem.

  I checked in the hardware section of the official cougar web pages, and
saw that there's a Q&A about fixing the spiking pot!  Gezzz... this must
happen to many cougar owners, so they have the Q&A listed.  I experienced
fixing a spiking pot in my F-22 stick (FCLS+TQS) and it went well that time,
so this shouldn't be a big deal with a small CTS pot.  But it's not, after
deassemble the pot, clean out the dust, putting grease, and put them all in
the positions.... there's still some noticable (and unacceptable) spiking
!!!! (It was an unhappy weekend to me).  I thought I have to check the OEM
web site, and see if I can buy .. may be 10 pots! as spare parts.

  I found the CTS web site, printed out the product catalog, and I even
found that there's a distributor in Bangkok (a big surprise to me).  I
suddenly called the distributor, a sale person was not very kind.  I was
told that they have some samples for the customers, and the minimum order
will be as lessas 10,000 pots!!!! Gosh, I need only 10.

FYI: The CTS web site is www.ctscorp.com <http://www.ctscorp.com> . You
can download the pdf technical data from it's product section
http://www.ctscorp.com/electro/251pot.htm

  Just a story of my "almost" dead pot to share with the community.  I would
be so glad if anyone can tell the exact model of the pot.  My best guess
would be 251B15F104B5N1

  If anyone here can find an electronic supply store where you can buy this
model, please let me know.  Also, have anyone used the Cougar stick mod
"Hall effect sensor" from a cubpilot?  It would be great if you can tell how
do you like it.

  Sukit Sittisudjatum

  Bangkok, Thailand

  www.thaiflight.com <http://www.thaiflight.com>

------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C2E1D6.12D8E350
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot! &nbsp;LVDT =
Side Stick Prototype WORKS!</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2723.2500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE>@font-face {
	font-family: Tahoma;
}
@font-face {
	font-family: Verdana;
}
@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; }
P.MsoNormal {
	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.MsoNormal {
	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
A:link {
	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
A:visited {
	COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
	COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
TT {
	FONT-FAMILY: "Courier New"
}
SPAN.EmailStyle18 {
	COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
DIV.Section1 {
	page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Marv,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>put me=20
on the list for your stick base :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D347481616-03032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Marc</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
 <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>-----Urspr&uuml;ngliche Nachricht----- Von:=20
 simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]Im=20
 Auftrag von Joseph Fagner Gesendet: Montag, 3. M&auml;rz =
2003=20
 16:48 An: simpits-tech@simpits.org Betreff: RE:=20
 [simpits-tech] Cougar's Spiking Pot! LVDT Side StickPrototype=20
 WORKS! </DIV>
 <DIV class=3DSection1>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">$1500 is =
high, but=20
 nothing I&#8217;ve done so far is cheap.&nbsp; Will you make it if I =
pay for=20
 it?&nbsp; Not that I can pay for it at the moment, but if you&#8217;ll =
make it, I&#8217;ll=20
 save for it and get it.&nbsp; Let me explain my rationale to others =
who may=20
 think I&#8217;m crazy.&nbsp; What would the real thing cost?&nbsp; A =
truck load more=20
 that $1500, right?&nbsp; Marv, I presume you wired it into the =
cougar&#8217;s=20
 innards as you had mentioned previously?&nbsp; This alone is no small =
feat and=20
 well worth the ease it will be to maintain the cougar&#8217;s =
programmability for=20
 me, the end user.&nbsp; Now, consider the other mods it would take to =
get a=20
 Cougar to &#8220;feel&#8221; good without the dead spots at 12, 3, 6 =
and=20
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">9=20
 o&#8217;clock<SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">.&nbsp; =
There is a=20
 mod out there for about $475 that will do this.&nbsp; Add in the HE =
sensors=20
 for the stick at $130 and you are now at $605.&nbsp; But, you still =
have to=20
 mod the cougar somehow to make it useful and out of the way of the =
instruments=20
 and you still really won&#8217;t have that realism.&nbsp; I want =
maximum realism and=20
 I&#8217;m willing to pay for it.&nbsp; If you think about it, some of =
us drop $3000=20
 on a projector for the maximum visual realism, what would be the next =
thing in=20
 line?&nbsp; My opinion would be the HOTAS since that is where your =
hands and=20
 thought will be a big chunk of time.&nbsp; So, I don&#8217;t think =
$1500 is an=20
 unreasonable amount to ask for all the time and effort you have placed =
into=20
 this.&nbsp; So build away, I want one!&nbsp; And damn, 1/1000 of a =
volt!=20
 &nbsp;I can&#8217;t even imagine how wonderful it =
feels.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Jay<FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> =

 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
 Message----- From:=20
 simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] =

On Behalf Of Marv De=20
 Beque Sent: Monday, =
March 03,=20
 2003 5:12 AM To:=20
 simpits-tech@simpits.org <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] =
Cougar's=20
 Spiking Pot! LVDT Side StickPrototype WORKS!
 &nbsp;
 <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana size=3D3><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Jay, Well I =
just got it=20
 working last night and it ROCKS!!!! However, don&#8217;t get =
too excited.=20
 &nbsp;&nbsp;The cost of this baby is way out of site (probably=20
 $1500). It is complex and the cost of the parts alone is $400, =
let=20
 alone the labor to build it. Still, the performance is out of =
this=20
 world. &nbsp;This thing has a noise and jitter of under 1/1000 volt! =
&nbsp;And=20
 that is on one of those bread boards. &nbsp;Mechanically is feels =
great.=20
 &nbsp;Recentering repeatability is about 1%. &nbsp;&nbsp;Tastes great, =
too.=20
 &nbsp;;-) I just put the thread up=20
 at: <TT><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: =
blue">http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?threadid=3D31723&=
amp;goto=3Dnewpost</TT><FONT=20
 face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"> <FONT=20
 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"> <TT><FONT=20
 face=3D"Courier New">Marv</TT> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> On 3/3/03 3:11 AM, "Joseph =
Fagner"=20
 &lt;crease-guard@attbi.com&gt; wrote:
 <FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sukit, I =
have the HE=20
 sensor on my stick (am currently awaiting the throttle mod as I am =
getting pot=20
 spikes in the throttle as well!). &nbsp;I could go on and on about how =
great=20
 they are (they are worth the money, trust me). &nbsp;GET THE MOD!! =
&nbsp;My=20
 stick is as smooth as a baby&#8217;s bottom and absolutely no spiking =
whatsoever.=20
 &nbsp;The HE sensors Cub pilot uses are supposedly rated for =
15,000,000 cycles=20
 (probably live longer that I will). &nbsp;Don&#8217;t waste your time =
or efforts on=20
 crappy pots that you will just have to change over and over again. =
&nbsp;In=20
 the long run, the HE sensors will be cheaper and save you a lot of =
headaches.=20
 &nbsp;Order both mods at once, as I have been waiting about 2-3 months =
for my=20
 throttle mod simply because Cub gets a ton of orders. &nbsp;I have two =

cougars, one of which will be completely HE sensors with Ian =
Johnston&#8217;s Uber=20
 cougar mod and the other I am planning on using with Marv&#8217;s LVDT =
stick base=20
 when he gets it done. &nbsp;I am going to have Cub add on a second HE =
sensor=20
 on my throttle mod when it&#8217;s time for the throttle in my pit. =
Hope this=20
 helps. <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Jay <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original=20
 Message----- From:=20
 simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] =

On Behalf Of =
Sittisudjatum,=20
 Sukit Sent: =
Monday, March=20
 03, 2003 1:26 AM To:=20
 simpits-tech@simpits.org <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: [simpits-tech] =
Cougar's Spiking=20
 Pot! <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Considering the working =
hours I've=20
 been using it, the pots in my Cougar set shouldn't have a well-known =
"spiking"=20
 problem! &nbsp;But it happened to the pot in my throttle last weekend. =
&nbsp;I=20
 just noticed it when I can't get to the idle position when I flew a =
DC-3 in=20
 MSFS2002. &nbsp;Then, I tested it in Foxy analyzer software, and =
accepted that=20
 there's a problem. <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I checked in the =
hardware=20
 section of the official cougar web pages, and saw that there's a =
Q&amp;A about=20
 fixing the spiking pot! &nbsp;Gezzz... this must happen to many cougar =
owners,=20
 so they have the Q&amp;A listed. &nbsp;I experienced fixing a spiking =
pot in=20
 my F-22 stick (FCLS+TQS) and it went well that time, so this shouldn't =
be a=20
 big deal with a small CTS pot. &nbsp;But it's not, after deassemble =
the pot,=20
 clean out the dust, putting grease, and put them all in the =
positions....=20
 there's still some noticable (and unacceptable) spiking !!!! (It was =
an=20
 unhappy weekend to me). &nbsp;I thought I have to check the OEM web =
site, and=20
 see if I can buy .. may be 10 pots! as spare =
parts. <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial size=3D2>I found=20
 the CTS web site, printed out the product catalog, and I even found =
that=20
 there's a distributor in Bangkok (a big surprise to me). &nbsp;I =
suddenly=20
 called the distributor, a sale person was not very kind. &nbsp;I was =
told that=20
 they have some samples for the customers, and the minimum order will =
be as=20
 lessas 10,000 pots!!!! Gosh, I need only 10. <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial size=3D2>FYI: The=20
 CTS web site is www.ctscorp.com &lt;http://www.ctscorp.com&gt; . =
&nbsp;You can=20
 download the pdf technical data from it's product section=20
 http://www.ctscorp.com/electro/251pot.htm <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial size=3D2>Just a=20
 story of my "almost" dead pot to share with the community. &nbsp;I =
would be so=20
 glad if anyone can tell the exact model of the pot. &nbsp;My best =
guess would=20
 be 251B15F104B5N1 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial size=3D2>If anyone=20
 here can find an electronic supply store where you can buy this model, =
please=20
 let me know. &nbsp;Also, have anyone used the Cougar stick mod "Hall =
effect=20
 sensor" from a cubpilot? &nbsp;It would be great if you can tell how =
do you=20
 like it. <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> <FONT=20
 face=3DArial size=3D2>Sukit=20
 Sittisudjatum <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> Bangkok,=20
 Thailand <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">www.thaiflight.com=20
 &lt;http://www.thaiflight.com&gt; <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <FONT=20
 face=3DVerdana> 
 <SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt">&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0131_01C2E1D6.12D8E350--