[simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the pit?
Albert Yung
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:38:36 +1100
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Hi Craig,
I invested in a half decent Hygrometer with in/out thermo reading. This =
will allow me to give you some good reading of my room. Also in the =
afternoon rush hour, I went to a electronic chain here just before they =
closed today...only saw the evaporative cooler. Cool my brain off first =
before I walk back out to the 84degree heat. With my newly purchase =
gadget, I can tell you today's relative humidity is 33% with a chances =
of a late shower...hehe. Today was the Hotest November night since =
1988....in Sydney.
Anyway, I agree with you. If the monitor are located inside the pit then =
it will dramatically increase the heat factor. Sucking outdoor air into =
the pit has been considered...but might not be possible to achieve. My =
room size is 12ft x 9ft. Brick wall facing north east and north west. =
Window is about 2.5ft by 4 ft.facing the north west.
Architectural wise, this room get good use of natural sunlight and also =
get a good breeze from the door which directly face the window.
Ok, here's the weather update...right now. its 31degree C or 87.6 F in =
here...the back of 3 monitors is 99.7F the room's relative humidity was =
37%. 8% lower than it was when I first entered the room with window =
shut...
Unfortunately, it will be very impossible to mount a window unit on a =
stand...or anywhere in the room... There are a few floor standing =
evaporative cooler which kinda feel cool. I might get one of them since =
it only cost about 100USD. Try it out in my room and see how much they =
can cool the room for normal purpose. However, I do question the reading =
I got here 36% RH will prehaps make the Evaporative cooler less =
effective.=20
I found an old fan which I can use maybe to provide suction out of the =
pit or blowing it into the pit. While other issues you mentioned I will =
get to them in a direct email to you :)
Thanks a tonne for every bit of your advise mate! I can not do without =
them.
Albert
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Craig Rochester=20
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org=20
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:48 AM
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside =
the pit?
Hi Albert,
=20
I think ventilation is important to consider in the design. Not only =
for your comfort, but for the reliability of the electronics. E.g.., if =
a monitor is in the pit, that's a lot of heat. I live in Boston, USA =
and my PC and 20" monitor heat my small 6' x 10' office(one exterior =
wall). You'll probably want the make-up outside air to be directed at =
your body and then flow out through the electronics to carry the heat =
away. I'd look into how the F-16 does the ventilation and go from =
there.
=20
Regarding the air conditioner, you can make the window unit work =
without putting it in the window. You could just let the heat dump in =
the room and put a good exhaust fan in the window. A better way would =
be to mount it on a stand inside the room as close to the window as =
practicable. You would then build a shroud over the exhaust louvers =
to(slits on sides and top) to direct the hot air out of the window. =
Connect a medium sized fan to the shroud with a large flex duct and =
attach the fan to the window bars. There will also be condensation =
dripping from the air conditioner that will have to be directed to a =
drain or bucket.
=20
Craig R.
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]On Behalf Of Albert Yung
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 1:01 PM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside =
the pit?
G'day Craig,
Love your work, all those things you had mentioned are things that I =
have not considered in great depth up to this point. Looks like if I was =
to put a canopy on the pit. I will be jumping into a real deepend. This =
weekend I was just drawing up plans for the hull and how I will have to =
construct it differently if an enclosed canopy will be place ontop. Do =
you think its worth while to be paranoi (like myself) to worry about all =
these things so early on...or should I just go ahead and build the damn =
thing up then I can get some realistic measures of T and RH inside the =
pit. Then I can figure out if I need some sort of active cooling?
The window air conditioner option is definetly out. I live in a =
place where I wont even dare to stick a satellete dish out the window, =
it will get knock off too easily. So my only mean to cool this room down =
is the option of one portable air conditioner or evaporative cooler that =
does not include an outdoor component to function.
=20
Thanks for making this sophiscated concept relatively simple to =
understand.
=20
I will shot you a private email asap.
Cheers,
Albert
p.s. Gene, I think this is definetly a good topic article for the =
simpits.org site. What do you reckon?
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Craig Rochester=20
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org=20
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:38 AM
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature =
inside the pit?
Finally a question I'm qualified to answer. :) I do a lot of HVAC =
in my work.
=20
Before you decide on cooling you should consider ventilation =
first. Your pit is basically a small room in a larger room. Here are =
the basic details to evaluate:
1.. What AC and or ventilation do you have in the room the pit =
is in? I.e. room size, AC air flow rate, AC air supply temperature(out =
of duct).=20
2.. What outside air conditions, Temperature(T) and Relative =
Humidity(RH) does you location see summer/winter?=20
3.. What clothing and/or helmet and mask equipment will you use? =
4.. If you use a "oxygen mask" where will the air come from and =
where will it exhaust?=20
5.. How much heat will be generated by the equipment in the pit?
The RH is a very important parameter that is often overlooked. =
The simplest way to get rid of the humidity and heat generated by you =
and the equipment is to exhaust it out. What goes out must be made up =
"Outside Air Make-up"(OA) and this must be cold enough and dry enough to =
provide a T and RH equilibrium that is comfortable. IF the room's air =
is good enough to provide sufficient OA to the pit all you need to do is =
have an exhaust system(simple fan) with vents located to direct the OA =
air through the pit.
=20
If you room is too warm or humid to knock down the T/RH of the =
pit, then active cooling is required. If cost is important and you're =
handy(if you can build a pit...) I'd use a regular window air =
conditioner and build a shroud around the "evaporator" section, the part =
that goes outside the window. The shroud would be connected to a fan to =
blow the air outside the room through the bars. The room-side of the =
air conditioner would be directed to the pit's OA make-up.
=20
I'd be glad to provide assistance in determining the details if =
you wish.
=20
Craig R.
-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]On Behalf Of Albert Yung
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:16 AM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside =
the pit?
Hi guys,
This is a question especially for those of you who have or =
planning on building an enclose cockpit (especially for the f16), i.e. =
with a canopy. How do you deal with temperature that will bound to build =
up within the pit?
=20
Heat generated from all the electronics, backlid panels, extra =
monitors (If you are not using a projector) and your own body heat
The only reason why I want to have a canopy is not for aesthetic =
but for "Sound proofing" myself when I talk over RW (because I share =
room).I dont want to "premanently" sound proofing myself by suffercating =
myself from within the cockpit. Turning the pit into a coffin :)=20
To make matter worse I live in a flat where I cant break any =
walls to put in a ducted reverse cycle air cond... I have grills and =
bars on my windows to keep out intruders so no way I can put in a =
wall/window mounted air cond. My only hope would be a portable air =
conditioner or one of those evaporative coolers...modify it and throw an =
inlet into the pit.
My second question would be, evaporative coolers, are they any =
effective in cooling the inner space of the f16 pit? because the price =
of one of them is like 1/10 of a portable air conditioner.
Would love to hear all of your thoughts :)
Albert
Sydney, bloody boiling in Austraila
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Craig,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I invested in a half decent Hygrometer =
with in/out=20
thermo reading. This will allow me to give you some good reading of my=20
room.</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Also in the afternoon rush =
hour, I=20
went to a electronic chain here just before they closed today...only saw =
the=20
evaporative cooler. Cool my brain off first before I walk back out to =
the=20
84degree heat. With my newly purchase gadget, I can tell you today's =
relative=20
humidity is 33% with a chances of a late shower...hehe. Today was the =
Hotest=20
November night since 1988....in Sydney.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Anyway, I agree with you. If the =
monitor are=20
located inside the pit then it will dramatically increase the heat =
factor.=20
Sucking outdoor air into the pit has been considered...but might not be =
possible=20
to achieve. My room size is 12ft x 9ft. Brick wall facing north east and =
north=20
west. Window is about 2.5ft by 4 ft.facing the north west.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Architectural wise, this room get good =
use of=20
natural sunlight and also get a good breeze from the door which directly =
face=20
the window.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ok, here's the weather update...right =
now. its=20
31degree C or 87.6 F in here...the back of 3 monitors is 99.7F the =
room's=20
relative humidity was 37%. 8% lower than it was when I first entered the =
room=20
with window shut...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Unfortunately, it will be very =
impossible to mount=20
a window unit on a stand...or anywhere in the room... There are a few =
floor=20
standing evaporative cooler which kinda feel cool. I might get one of =
them since=20
it only cost about 100USD. Try it out in my room and see how much they =
can cool=20
the room for normal purpose. However, I do question the reading I got =
here 36%=20
RH will prehaps make the Evaporative cooler less effective. =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I found an old fan which I can use =
maybe to provide=20
suction out of the pit or blowing it into the pit. While other issues =
you=20
mentioned I will get to them in a direct email to you :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks a tonne for every bit of your =
advise mate! I=20
can not do without them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:johncraigroch@msn.com" =
title=3Djohncraigroch@msn.com>Craig=20
Rochester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org"=20
title=3Dsimpits-tech@simpits.org>simpits-tech@simpits.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 25, 2002 =
5:48=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] How =
do you=20
deal with temperature inside the pit?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D203072018-24112002>Hi=20
Albert,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D203072018-24112002>I=20
think ventilation is important to consider in the design. Not =
only for=20
your comfort, but for the reliability of the electronics. E.g.., =
if a=20
monitor is in the pit, that's a lot of heat. I live in =
Boston, USA=20
and my PC and 20" monitor heat my small 6' x 10' office(one =
exterior=20
wall). You'll probably want the make-up outside air to be =
directed at=20
your body and then flow out through the electronics to carry the =
heat=20
away. I'd look into how the F-16 does the ventilation and go =
from=20
there.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002>Regarding the air conditioner, you =
can make the=20
window unit work without putting it in the window. You could =
just let=20
the heat dump in the room and put a good exhaust fan in the =
window. A=20
better way would be to mount it on a stand inside the room =
as close=20
to the window as practicable. You would then build a shroud over =
the=20
exhaust louvers to(slits on sides and top) to direct the hot air out =
of the=20
window. Connect a medium sized fan to the shroud with a large =
flex duct=20
and attach the fan to the window bars. There will also be =
condensation=20
dripping from the air conditioner that will have to be directed to a =
drain or=20
bucket.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002>Craig R.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New =
Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]<B>On=20
Behalf Of</B> Albert Yung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 24, 1999 =
1:01=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
[simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the=20
pit?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>G'day Craig,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Love your work, all those things =
you had=20
mentioned are things that I have not considered in great depth up to =
this=20
point. Looks like if I was to put a canopy on the pit. I will be =
jumping=20
into a real deepend. This weekend I was just drawing up plans for =
the hull=20
and how I will have to construct it differently if an enclosed =
canopy will=20
be place ontop. Do you think its worth while to be paranoi (like =
myself) to=20
worry about all these things so early on...or should I just go ahead =
and=20
build the damn thing up then I can get some realistic measures of T =
and RH=20
inside the pit. Then I can figure out if I need some sort of active=20
cooling?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The window air conditioner option =
is definetly=20
out. I live in a place where I wont even dare to stick a satellete =
dish out=20
the window, it will get knock off too easily. So my only mean to =
cool this=20
room down is the option of one portable air conditioner or =
evaporative=20
cooler that does not include an outdoor component to =
function.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for making this =
sophiscated concept=20
relatively simple to understand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will shot you a private email=20
asap.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>p.s.<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
Gene, I think this=20
is definetly a good topic article for the simpits.org site. What do =
you=20
reckon?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:johncraigroch@msn.com" =
title=3Djohncraigroch@msn.com>Craig=20
Rochester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org"=20
title=3Dsimpits-tech@simpits.org>simpits-tech@simpits.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 25, =
2002 3:38=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] =
How do=20
you deal with temperature inside the pit?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Finally a question I'm qualified to answer. :) I do a lot =
of HVAC=20
in my work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Before you decide on cooling you should consider =
ventilation=20
first. Your pit is basically a small room in a larger room. =
Here are=20
the basic details to evaluate:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<OL>
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>What AC=20
and or ventilation do you have in the room the pit is=20
in? I.e. room size, AC air flow rate, AC air supply=20
temperature(out of duct).</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>What outside air conditions, Temperature(T) and =
Relative=20
Humidity(RH) does you location see summer/winter?</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>What clothing and/or helmet and mask equipment will you =
use?</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>If you use a "oxygen mask" where will the air come from =
and where=20
will it exhaust?</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>How much heat will be generated by the equipment in the =
pit?</FONT></SPAN></LI></OL>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>The RH is a very important parameter that is often=20
overlooked. The simplest way to get rid of the humidity and =
heat=20
generated by you and the equipment is to exhaust it out. =
What goes=20
out must be made up "Outside Air Make-up"(OA) and this must be =
cold enough=20
and dry enough to provide a T and RH equilibrium that is=20
comfortable. IF the room's air is good enough to provide =
sufficient=20
OA to the pit all you need to do is have an exhaust system(simple=20
fan) with vents located to direct the OA air through the=20
pit.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>If you room is too warm or humid to knock down the T/RH =
of the pit,=20
then active cooling is required. If cost is important and =
you're=20
handy(if you can build a pit...) I'd use a regular window air =
conditioner=20
and build a shroud around the "evaporator" section, the part that=20
goes outside the window. The shroud would be connected =
to a fan=20
to blow the air outside the room through the bars. The =
room-side of=20
the air conditioner would be directed to the pit's OA=20
make-up.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>I'd be glad to provide assistance in determining the =
details if you=20
wish.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Craig R.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org=20
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> =
Albert=20
Yung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:16 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [simpits-tech] How =
do you=20
deal with temperature inside the pit?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi guys,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is a question especially =
for those of=20
you who have or planning on building an enclose cockpit =
(especially for=20
the f16), i.e. with a canopy. How do you deal with temperature =
that will=20
bound to build up within the pit?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Heat generated from all the =
electronics,=20
backlid panels, extra monitors (If you are not using a =
projector) and=20
your own body heat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only reason why I want to =
have a canopy=20
is not for aesthetic but for "Sound proofing" myself when I talk =
over RW=20
(because I share room).I dont want to "premanently" sound =
proofing=20
myself by suffercating myself from within the cockpit. Turning =
the pit=20
into a coffin :) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To make matter worse I live in =
a flat where=20
I cant break any walls to put in a ducted reverse cycle air =
cond... I=20
have grills and bars on my windows to keep out intruders so no =
way I can=20
put in a wall/window mounted air cond. My only hope would be a =
portable=20
air conditioner or one of those evaporative coolers...modify it =
and=20
throw an inlet into the pit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My second question would be, =
evaporative=20
coolers, are they any effective in cooling the inner space of =
the f16=20
pit? because the price of one of them is like 1/10 of a portable =
air=20
conditioner.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would love to hear all of your =
thoughts=20
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sydney, bloody boiling in=20
=
Austraila</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE=
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