[simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the pit?

Albert Yung simpits-tech@simpits.org
Thu, 25 Nov 1999 05:00:49 +1100


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G'day Craig,

Love your work, all those things you had mentioned are things that I =
have not considered in great depth up to this point. Looks like if I was =
to put a canopy on the pit. I will be jumping into a real deepend. This =
weekend I was just drawing up plans for the hull and how I will have to =
construct it differently if an enclosed canopy will be place ontop. Do =
you think its worth while to be paranoi (like myself) to worry about all =
these things so early on...or should I just go ahead and build the damn =
thing up then I can get some realistic measures of T and RH inside the =
pit. Then I can figure out if I need some sort of active cooling?

The window air conditioner option is definetly out. I live in a place =
where I wont even dare to stick a satellete dish out the window, it will =
get knock off too easily. So my only mean to cool this room down is the =
option of one portable air conditioner or evaporative cooler that does =
not include an outdoor component to function.
=20
Thanks for making this sophiscated concept relatively simple to =
understand.
=20
I will shot you a private email asap.

Cheers,

Albert
p.s. Gene, I think this is definetly a good topic article for the =
simpits.org site. What do you reckon?



  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Craig Rochester=20
  To: simpits-tech@simpits.org=20
  Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:38 AM
  Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside =
the pit?


  Finally a question I'm qualified to answer. :) I do a lot of HVAC in =
my work.
  =20
  Before you decide on cooling you should consider ventilation first.  =
Your pit is basically a small room in a larger room. Here are the basic =
details to evaluate:
    1.. What AC and or ventilation do you have in the room the pit is =
in?  I.e. room size, AC air flow rate, AC air supply temperature(out of =
duct).=20
    2.. What outside air conditions, Temperature(T) and Relative =
Humidity(RH) does you location see summer/winter?=20
    3.. What clothing and/or helmet and mask equipment will you use?=20
    4.. If you use a "oxygen mask" where will the air come from and =
where will it exhaust?=20
    5.. How much heat will be generated by the equipment in the pit?
  The RH is a very important parameter that is often overlooked.  The =
simplest way to get rid of the humidity and heat generated by you and =
the equipment is to exhaust it out.  What goes out must be made up =
"Outside Air Make-up"(OA) and this must be cold enough and dry enough to =
provide a T and RH equilibrium that is comfortable.  IF the room's air =
is good enough to provide sufficient OA to the pit all you need to do is =
have an exhaust system(simple fan) with vents located to direct the OA =
air through the pit.
  =20
  If you room is too warm or humid to knock down the T/RH of the pit, =
then active cooling is required.  If cost is important and you're =
handy(if you can build a pit...) I'd use a regular window air =
conditioner and build a shroud around the "evaporator" section, the part =
that goes outside the window.  The shroud would be connected to a fan to =
blow the air outside the room through the bars.  The room-side of the =
air conditioner would be directed to the pit's OA make-up.
  =20
  I'd be glad to provide assistance in determining the details if you =
wish.
  =20
  Craig R.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]On Behalf Of Albert Yung
    Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:16 AM
    To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
    Subject: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the =
pit?


    Hi guys,

    This is a question especially for those of you who have or planning =
on building an enclose cockpit (especially for the f16), i.e. with a =
canopy. How do you deal with temperature that will bound to build up =
within the pit?
    =20
    Heat generated from all the electronics, backlid panels, extra =
monitors (If you are not using a projector) and your own body heat

    The only reason why I want to have a canopy is not for aesthetic but =
for "Sound proofing" myself when I talk over RW (because I share room).I =
dont want to "premanently" sound proofing myself by suffercating myself =
from within the cockpit. Turning the pit into a coffin :)=20

    To make matter worse I live in a flat where I cant break any walls =
to put in a ducted reverse cycle air cond... I have grills and bars on =
my windows to keep out intruders so no way I can put in a wall/window =
mounted air cond. My only hope would be a portable air conditioner or =
one of those evaporative coolers...modify it and throw an inlet into the =
pit.

    My second question would be, evaporative coolers, are they any =
effective in cooling the inner space of the f16 pit? because the price =
of one of them is like 1/10 of a portable air conditioner.

    Would love to hear all of your thoughts :)

    Albert
    Sydney, bloody boiling in Austraila

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>G'day Craig,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Love your work, all those things you =
had mentioned=20
are things that I have not considered in great depth up to this point. =
Looks=20
like if I was to put a canopy on the pit. I will be jumping into a real =
deepend.=20
This weekend I was just drawing up plans for the hull and how I will =
have to=20
construct it differently if an enclosed canopy will be place ontop. Do =
you think=20
its worth while to be paranoi (like myself) to worry about all these =
things so=20
early on...or should I just go ahead and build the damn thing up then I =
can get=20
some realistic measures of T and RH inside the pit. Then I can figure =
out if I=20
need some sort of active cooling?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The window air conditioner option is =
definetly out.=20
I live in a place where I wont even dare to stick a satellete dish out =
the=20
window, it will get knock off too easily. So my only mean to cool this =
room down=20
is the option of one portable air conditioner or evaporative cooler that =
does=20
not include an outdoor component to function.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for making&nbsp;this sophiscated =
concept=20
relatively simple to understand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will shot you a private email =
asap.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>p.s.<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Gene, =
I think this is=20
definetly a good topic article for the simpits.org site. What do you=20
reckon?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:johncraigroch@msn.com" =
title=3Djohncraigroch@msn.com>Craig=20
  Rochester</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org"=20
  title=3Dsimpits-tech@simpits.org>simpits-tech@simpits.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 25, 2002 =
3:38=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] How =
do you=20
  deal with temperature inside the pit?</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Finally a question I'm qualified to answer. :) I do a lot of =
HVAC in my=20
  work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Before you decide on cooling you should consider ventilation=20
  first.&nbsp; Your pit is basically a small room in a larger room. Here =
are the=20
  basic details to evaluate:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <OL>
    <LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002></SPAN><SPAN=20
    class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial =
size=3D2>What AC and=20
    or ventilation do you&nbsp;have in&nbsp;the room the pit is =
in?&nbsp; I.e.=20
    room size, AC air flow rate, AC air supply temperature(out of=20
    duct).</FONT></SPAN>=20
    <LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>What outside air conditions, Temperature(T) and Relative =
Humidity(RH)=20
    does you location see summer/winter?</FONT></SPAN>=20
    <LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
    size=3D2>What clothing and/or helmet and mask equipment will you=20
    use?</FONT></SPAN>=20
    <LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>If=20
    you use a "oxygen mask" where will the air come from and where will =
it=20
    exhaust?</FONT></SPAN>=20
    <LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>How=20
    much heat will be generated by the equipment in the=20
  pit?</FONT></SPAN></LI></OL>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>The=20
  RH is a very important parameter that is often overlooked.&nbsp; The =
simplest=20
  way to get rid of the humidity and heat generated by you and the =
equipment is=20
  to exhaust it out.&nbsp; What goes out must be made up "Outside Air=20
  Make-up"(OA) and this must be cold enough and dry enough to provide a =
T and RH=20
  equilibrium that is comfortable.&nbsp; IF the room's air is good =
enough to=20
  provide sufficient OA to the pit all you need to do is have an exhaust =

  system(simple fan)&nbsp;with vents located to direct the OA air =
through the=20
  pit.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>If=20
  you room is too warm or humid to knock down the T/RH of the pit, then =
active=20
  cooling is required.&nbsp; If cost is important and you're handy(if =
you can=20
  build a pit...) I'd use a regular window air conditioner and build a =
shroud=20
  around the "evaporator" section, the part that goes&nbsp;outside the=20
  window.&nbsp; The shroud would be connected to a fan to blow the air =
outside=20
  the room through the bars.&nbsp; The room-side of the air conditioner =
would be=20
  directed to the pit's OA make-up.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd=20
  be glad to provide assistance in determining the details if you=20
  wish.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2>Craig R.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
    simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]<B>On=20
    Behalf Of</B> Albert Yung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 24, =
1999 10:16=20
    AM<BR><B>To:</B> simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[simpits-tech]=20
    How do you deal with temperature inside the =
pit?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi guys,</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is a question especially for =
those of you=20
    who have or planning on building an enclose cockpit (especially for =
the=20
    f16), i.e. with a canopy. How do you deal with temperature that will =
bound=20
    to build up within the pit?</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Heat generated from all the =
electronics,=20
    backlid panels, extra monitors (If you are not using a projector) =
and your=20
    own body heat</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only reason why I want to have =
a canopy is=20
    not for aesthetic but for "Sound proofing" myself when I talk over =
RW=20
    (because I share room).I dont want to "premanently" sound proofing =
myself by=20
    suffercating myself from within the cockpit. Turning the pit into a =
coffin=20
    :) </FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To make matter worse I live in a =
flat where I=20
    cant break any walls to put in a ducted reverse cycle air cond... I =
have=20
    grills and bars on my windows to keep out intruders so no way I can =
put in a=20
    wall/window mounted air cond. My only hope would be a portable air=20
    conditioner or one of those evaporative coolers...modify it and =
throw an=20
    inlet into the pit.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My second question would be, =
evaporative=20
    coolers, are they any effective in cooling the inner space of the =
f16 pit?=20
    because the price of one of them is like 1/10 of a portable air=20
    conditioner.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would love to hear all of your =
thoughts=20
    :)</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sydney, bloody boiling in=20
  Austraila</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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