[simpits-tech] May the Force Feedback be with you...
Ken Schlote
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Sat, 8 Feb 2003 14:03:16 -0800 (PST)
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Hi All,
I woke up this morning and was thinking of some comments for this problem of trim and centering the stick. Matt has said it well. My comment for trim was going to be the same. As for the closed cylinder I'm not so sure. If the cylinder is closed the movement of the shaft will increase the pressure to a point were you can't move the shaft. The cylinder will need to be big so the amount of movement won't increase the pressure much. If the cylinder is attached to a big chamber(and maybe this is what you are thinking Matt) then the movement of the cylinder won't be noticed. This system will also need two cylinders per axis.
My idea may work, use an innertube around a circular disk (attached to the stick) inside a retaining ring. The pressure would be controlled the same way but when you move the stick the disk would press on the innertube and you would feel the pressure. The air would simply move to the otherside of the tube and the pressure would remain the same. The stick would self center because the tube would go back the the orginal shape. This would be the same pressure in all directions.Trim would be just moving the tube assembly to a different center.
Any thoughts or comments?
Ken
Matt Bailey <mattb@rtccom.net> wrote:Well, venting the air as you move the stick will not only change stick
pressure at a given control surface loading and stick position, it will
change the centering of the stick. I'd say seal off the chambers. You don't
really get a drifting center in real planes, just a constant amount of force
required for a given control surface loading and control position.
My idea is to have sealed chambers for the air, just adjust the air pressure
with airspeed, rather than bleeding air off as you move the stick. So, if you
were flying at a given airspeed and had half up-elevator, you would have to
hold one, constant force to keep the stick at that position. If you slowed
down, a regulator would reduce the air pressure in both chambers, hence less
force required to hold that half up-elevator. As you released the stick,
force would naturally be less as the stick neared center.
I figured for elevator trim you could simply move the air cylinder assembly
forward/aft.
-Matt Bailey
On Friday 07 February 2003 08:47, you wrote:
> That was basically the thought. What are your comments (he asks, with some
> trepidation)?
>
> Keenan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Bailey [mailto:mattb@rtccom.net]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:18 PM
> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] May the Force Feedback be with you...
>
>
> I have not been following this entire conversation, but it sounds like the
> force feedback system by Keenan will change force required to move the
> stick by varying the speed at which air can enter/escape an air chamber.
> Correct? 'Cause if so, I got some comments to make. :)
>
> -Matt Bailey
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<P>Hi All,
<P>I woke up this morning and was thinking of some comments for this problem of trim and centering the stick. Matt has said it well. My comment for trim was going to be the same. As for the closed cylinder I'm not so sure. If the cylinder is closed the movement of the shaft will increase the pressure to a point were you can't move the shaft. The cylinder will need to be big so the amount of movement won't increase the pressure much. If the cylinder is attached to a big chamber(and maybe this is what you are thinking Matt) then the movement of the cylinder won't be noticed. This system will also need two cylinders per axis.
<P>My idea may work, use an innertube around a circular disk (attached to the stick) inside a retaining ring. The pressure would be controlled the same way but when you move the stick the disk would press on the innertube and you would feel the pressure. The air would simply move to the otherside of the tube and the pressure would remain the same. The stick would self center because the tube would go back the the orginal shape. This would be the same pressure in all directions.Trim would be just moving the tube assembly to a different center.
<P>Any thoughts or comments?
<P>Ken
<P> <B><I>Matt Bailey <mattb@rtccom.net></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Well, venting the air as you move the stick will not only change stick <BR>pressure at a given control surface loading and stick position, it will <BR>change the centering of the stick. I'd say seal off the chambers. You don't <BR>really get a drifting center in real planes, just a constant amount of force <BR>required for a given control surface loading and control position.<BR><BR>My idea is to have sealed chambers for the air, just adjust the air pressure <BR>with airspeed, rather than bleeding air off as you move the stick. So, if you <BR>were flying at a given airspeed and had half up-elevator, you would have to <BR>hold one, constant force to keep the stick at that position. If you slowed <BR>down, a regulator would reduce the air pressure in both chambers, hence less <BR>force required to hold that half up-elevator. As you released the stick, <BR>force would naturally be less as the stick neared center.<BR><BR>I figured for elevator trim you could simply move the air cylinder assembly <BR>forward/aft.<BR><BR>-Matt Bailey<BR><BR>On Friday 07 February 2003 08:47, you wrote:<BR>> That was basically the thought. What are your comments (he asks, with some<BR>> trepidation)?<BR>><BR>> Keenan<BR>><BR>><BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: Matt Bailey [mailto:mattb@rtccom.net]<BR>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:18 PM<BR>> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR>> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] May the Force Feedback be with you...<BR>><BR>><BR>> I have not been following this entire conversation, but it sounds like the<BR>> force feedback system by Keenan will change force required to move the<BR>> stick by varying the speed at which air can enter/escape an air chamber.<BR>> Correct? 'Cause if so, I got some comments to make. :)<BR>><BR>> -Matt Bailey<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Simpits-tech mailing list<BR>Simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR>http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech<BR>To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!</BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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