[simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
Marv De Beque
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:01:01 -0400
Sukit,
The design I have should prevent no problems with regard to life span and it
is very simple (which makes for better reliability).
However, until I get my Cougar (maybe today or tomorrow), I can't complete
the design.
I have heard about the adjustment to limit the grip's travel on the Cougar.
For me it would not work since I plan to put a canopy on my cockpit and the
canopy rails are very close to the side of the stick. You would not be able
to move the stick to the right without contacting the canopy. I think there
is about 4 cm between the side of the stick grip and the canopy rail.
For those that do not want a canopy, I think there are people interested in
just having the "feel" of a real F-16 stick to add some realism to the sim.
Also, my base will allow those with a cockpit to have all of the panels
(LRUs) installed in the right side console.
As a side note. My original no-move side stick I built is actually
mechanical, not electrical. I used standard PVC 1.5" plumbing tubing as the
core. The base is made from hardwood, shaped to the exact same size as the
real base.
The plastic PVC pipe runs down through the side console all of the way to
the bottom of the cockpit. The top of the PVC pipe has three nylon disks
stacked on top of each other. The center disk has a long 1/2" steel rod
attached to it. The rod extends downward to the bottom where I mounted a
CTS mini-stick. This is a tiny mechanical joystick with 100K pots.
Back to the top set of disks... The center disk is sandwiched between two
thicker disks that bolt together. Those thicker disks press fit into the
top of the PVC pipe. By adjusting the bolts, I can set the tension for how
stiff the stick moves. The 1/2" steel rod extends up past the top of the
stick base and is what the grip is mounted to.
The problem with the design was that the force required to move the grip is
the same in all directions. So, I loosened those top bolts and added
springs at the bottom of the steel rod to make the side to side and front to
back independently adjustable. That works pretty well.
My mechanical system only has about 1/4" of movement and 1/8" of that is due
to the plastic grip flexing.
Marv
--
> From: "Sukit, Sittisudjatum" <SukitS@state.gov>
> Reply-To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:52:54 -0400
> To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>
> Thank you, Marv and Erwin. You guys have so many information on hands.
>
> "While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special
> coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight bit
> of movement, just like the real thing."
>
> I'm thinking about that, too. The combination of transducer and some kind
> of hard spring or rubber ring to allow movement. But the life of a the
> rubber may not as long as we expect...then we have to think about spare part
> again. I'm wondering if there is a possibility for ordering very small
> quantity (less than 500 sets) of those small parts that you can't
> manufactured them by yourself (spring, bush, rubber, etc.)
>
> During the weekend, I read a Cougar manual and found that we can set X-axis
> and Y-axis to get a little movement, also get more sensitivity if wanted.
> To prove it, I brought the baby out from the box and get it connected ...
> man, it's so much easier than setting the F-22+TQS that have been used for
> years. When activate the Cougar Hotas Software and set the movement of X
> and Y axis to minimum (100% at the side bar for both upper and lower
> side)... then having the sensitivity of both axis set to 32 (maximum
> position, then the shape of the graph becomes 'S' curve instead of '/'
> shape).
>
>
> I tested it in the Falcon 4.0 flight, and found very interesting result, I
> can reduce the movement the stick from ~60 degrees (30 to the left, 30 to
> the right, and the same for pull and push) to something less than 30 degrees
> (15 degree on each side). By setting the sensitivity to the maximum value,
> the stick responded very fast, I could perform a hard turn or full rolls
> just when move the stick to approx. 5 degrees out from the center. Next, I
> set the sensitivity to zero, and found that it has to be a full 15 degrees
> from the center to get a full roll or hard turn.
>
> Sorry that I cannot remember the specific names of each values, but they all
> show in the Cougar Control panel... and you Cougar owners should know what I
> meant. My question is that 'Is it good enough compare to the real thing by
> setting the Cougar this way?' and 'How can we eliminate the large gimbals or
> make a modify kit with low cost to fit in a replica stick base?'
>
> Marv, please also try your Cougar (when arrive, of course) if the result is
> appropriate.... Albert raised this cool idea when we had beer in Sydney.
>
>
>
> Sukit Sittisudjatum
>
> www.thaiflight.com <http://www.thaiflight.com>
>
> Bangkok, Thailand
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: Marv De Beque [ <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com>
> mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:14 PM
> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>
> The transducer is fully compatible with either the EPIC or the PC game port
> with a signal of 0 to 5 volt.
> Yes, my understanding is that the force required is +/- 25 lbs. for front to
> back and +/- 10 lbs. for side to side.
> I want to make mine user adjustable from those numbers just cited down to
> something much lower. I don't know what the lower limit will be just yet.
> Should have that dialed out in a week or two.
> Sukit,
> I am not sure about the actual amount of stick movement on the real
> assembly. The earliest ones had none. Later, they added some play to give
> about 1/32", but it was different for some directions. I have heard rumor
> that they have relaxed the amount of movement even more to perhaps 1/4".
> Mine will have something between the two numbers I quoted above. I have not
> decided on the exact amount, but I think 1/8" is a good compromise.
> While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special
> coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight bit
> of movement, just like the real thing.
> Just like the my gauges, I am trying for a faithful replication of the F-16
> side stick, right down to all of the shiny screws and various labels.
> I am looking into making the rubber boot that the modern Block 50 uses
> between the grip and the base. That will add the final touch. ;-)
> Marv
> --
>
>> From: "Sukit, Sittisudjatum" <SukitS@state.gov>
>> Reply-To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:37:27 -0400
>> To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
>> Subject: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>>
>> Marv,
>>
>> I remembered that someone (you?) gave the information about 25Ibs for pull
>> and push, 19Ibs (or 10 Ibis) for side to side.... and the stick can be
> moved
>> about dia 0.25" on the top. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>
>> I'm wondering if you're going to make a true replica, or a zero movement
>> stick? Cause the strain gauge gives us no movement... Also, do we need to
>> have EPIC card to convert the signal from your mod kit? Just curious.
>>
>> Sukit Sittisudjatum
>> www.thaiflight.com < <http://www.thaiflight.com>
> http://www.thaiflight.com>
>>
>> Bangkok, Thailand
>>
>>
>>
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