[simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick

Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:52:54 -0400

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C274AE.5C367700"

------_=_NextPart_001_01C274AE.5C367700
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

Thank you, Marv and Erwin.  You guys have so many information on hands.

"While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special
coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight bit
of movement, just like the real thing."

I'm thinking about that, too.  The combination of transducer and some kind
of hard spring or rubber ring to allow movement.  But the life of a the
rubber may not as long as we expect...then we have to think about spare part
again.  I'm wondering if there is a possibility for ordering very small
quantity (less than 500 sets) of those small parts that you can't
manufactured them by yourself (spring, bush, rubber, etc.)

During the weekend, I read a Cougar manual and found that we can set X-axis
and Y-axis to get a little movement, also get more sensitivity if wanted.
To prove it, I brought the baby out from the box and get it connected ...
man, it's so much easier than setting the F-22+TQS that have been used for
years.  When activate the Cougar Hotas Software and set the movement of X
and Y axis to minimum (100% at the side bar for both upper and lower
side)... then having the sensitivity of both axis set to 32 (maximum
position, then the shape of the graph becomes 'S' curve instead of '/'
shape). 

I tested it in the Falcon 4.0 flight, and found very interesting result, I
can reduce the movement the stick from ~60 degrees (30 to the left, 30 to
the right, and the same for pull and push) to something less than 30 degrees
(15 degree on each side).  By setting the sensitivity to the maximum value,
the stick responded very fast, I could perform a hard turn or full rolls
just when move the stick to approx. 5 degrees out from the center.  Next, I
set the sensitivity to zero, and found that it has to be a full 15 degrees
from the center to get a full roll or hard turn.

Sorry that I cannot remember the specific names of each values, but they all
show in the Cougar Control panel... and you Cougar owners should know what I
meant.  My question is that 'Is it good enough compare to the real thing by
setting the Cougar this way?' and 'How can we eliminate the large gimbals or
make a modify kit with low cost to fit in a replica stick base?'

Marv, please also try your Cougar (when arrive, of course) if the result is
appropriate.... Albert raised this cool idea when we had beer in Sydney.

Sukit Sittisudjatum

www.thaiflight.com <http://www.thaiflight.com> 

Bangkok, Thailand

----Original Message-----
From: Marv De Beque [  <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com>
mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:14 PM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick

The transducer is fully compatible with either the EPIC or the PC game port
with a signal of 0 to 5 volt.
Yes, my understanding is that the force required is +/- 25 lbs. for front to
back and +/- 10 lbs. for side to side.
I want to make mine user adjustable from those numbers just cited down to
something much lower. I don't know what the lower limit will be just yet.
Should have that dialed out in a week or two.
Sukit,
I am not sure about the actual amount of stick movement on the real
assembly. The earliest ones had none. Later, they added some play to give
about 1/32", but it was different for some directions. I have heard rumor
that they have relaxed the amount of movement even more to perhaps 1/4".
Mine will have something between the two numbers I quoted above. I have not
decided on the exact amount, but I think 1/8" is a good compromise.
While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special
coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight bit
of movement, just like the real thing.
Just like the my gauges, I am trying for a faithful replication of the F-16
side stick, right down to all of the shiny screws and various labels.
I am looking into making the rubber boot that the modern Block 50 uses
between the grip and the base. That will add the final touch. ;-)
Marv
--

> From: "Sukit, Sittisudjatum" <SukitS@state.gov>
> Reply-To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:37:27 -0400
> To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
> Subject: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>
> Marv,
>
> I remembered that someone (you?) gave the information about 25Ibs for pull
> and push, 19Ibs (or 10 Ibis) for side to side.... and the stick can be
moved
> about dia 0.25" on the top. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> I'm wondering if you're going to make a true replica, or a zero movement
> stick? Cause the strain gauge gives us no movement... Also, do we need to
> have EPIC card to convert the signal from your mod kit? Just curious.
>
> Sukit Sittisudjatum
> www.thaiflight.com <  <http://www.thaiflight.com>
http://www.thaiflight.com>
>
> Bangkok, Thailand
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Simpits-tech mailing list
Simpits-tech@simpits.org
 <http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech>
http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page.
Thanks! 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C274AE.5C367700
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE></TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4919.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
Thank you, 
Marv and Erwin.&nbsp; You guys have so many information on 
hands.
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
 "While the 
 transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special coupler 
 between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight bit of 
 movement, just like the real thing."</BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm thinking 
about that, too.&nbsp; The combination of transducer and some kind of hard 
spring or rubber ring to allow movement.&nbsp; But the life of a the rubber may 
not as long as we expect...then we have to think about spare part again.&nbsp; 
I'm wondering if there is a possibility for ordering very small quantity (less 
than 500 sets) of those small parts that you can't manufactured them by yourself 
(spring, bush, rubber, etc.)
During&nbsp;the weekend, I read&nbsp;a Cougar&nbsp;manual and found 
that we can set X-axis and Y-axis to get&nbsp;a little movement, also get more 
sensitivity if&nbsp;wanted.&nbsp; To prove it, I brought the baby out from the 
box and get it connected ... man, it's so much easier than setting the F-22+TQS 
that have been used for years.&nbsp; When activate the Cougar Hotas Software and 
set the movement of X and Y axis to minimum (100% at the side bar for both upper 
and lower side)...&nbsp;then having the sensitivity of both&nbsp;axis set to 32 
(maximum position, then the shape of the graph becomes&nbsp;'S' curve instead of 
'/' shape).&nbsp;
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I tested it in the Falcon 4.0 flight, and 
found very interesting result, I can reduce the movement the stick from ~60 
degrees (30 to the left, 30 to the right, and the same for pull and push) to 
something less than 30 degrees (15 degree on each side).&nbsp; By setting the 
sensitivity to the maximum value, the stick responded very fast, I could perform 
a hard turn or full rolls just when move the stick to approx. 5 degrees out from 
the center.&nbsp; Next, I set the sensitivity to zero, and found that it has to 
be a full 15 degrees from the center to get a full roll or hard 
turn.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Sorry that I cannot remember the specific 
names of each values, but they all&nbsp;show&nbsp;in the Cougar Control panel... 
and you Cougar owners should know what I meant.&nbsp; My question is that 'Is it 
good enough compare to the real thing by setting the Cougar this way?' and 'How 
can we eliminate the large gimbals or make a modify kit with low cost to fit in 
a replica stick base?'</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Marv, please also try your Cougar (when 
arrive, of course) if the result is appropriate....&nbsp;Albert raised this 
cool&nbsp;idea when we had beer in Sydney.</DIV>
&nbsp;
Sukit Sittisudjatum
<A 
href="http://www.thaiflight.com">www.thaiflight.com</A>
Bangkok, Thailand ----Original 
Message----- From: Marv De Beque [<A 
href="mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com">mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com</A>] Sent: 
Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:14 PM To: simpits-tech@simpits.org Subject: 
Re: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick The transducer is 
fully compatible with either the EPIC or the PC game port with a signal of 0 
to 5 volt. Yes, my understanding is that the force required is +/- 25 lbs. 
for front to back and +/- 10 lbs. for side to side. I want to make mine 
user adjustable from those numbers just cited down to something much lower. I 
don't know what the lower limit will be just yet. Should have that dialed out 
in a week or two. Sukit, I am not sure about the actual amount of stick 
movement on the real assembly. The earliest ones had none. Later, they added 
some play to give about 1/32", but it was different for some directions. I 
have heard rumor that they have relaxed the amount of movement even more to 
perhaps 1/4". Mine will have something between the two numbers I quoted 
above. I have not decided on the exact amount, but I think 1/8" is a good 
compromise. While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a 
special coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a 
slight bit of movement, just like the real thing. Just like the my gauges, 
I am trying for a faithful replication of the F-16 side stick, right down to 
all of the shiny screws and various labels. I am looking into making the 
rubber boot that the modern Block 50 uses between the grip and the base. That 
will add the final touch. ;-) Marv -- &gt; From: "Sukit, 
Sittisudjatum" &lt;SukitS@state.gov&gt; &gt; Reply-To: 
simpits-tech@simpits.org &gt; Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:37:27 -0400 &gt; 
To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" &lt;simpits-tech@simpits.org&gt; &gt; 
Subject: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick &gt; &gt; 
Marv, &gt; &gt; I remembered that someone (you?) gave the information 
about 25Ibs for pull &gt; and push, 19Ibs (or 10 Ibis) for side to side.... 
and the stick can be moved &gt; about dia 0.25" on the top. Correct me if I'm 
wrong. &gt; &gt; I'm wondering if you're going to make a true replica, or 
a zero movement &gt; stick? Cause the strain gauge gives us no movement... 
Also, do we need to &gt; have EPIC card to convert the signal from your mod 
kit? Just curious. &gt; &gt; Sukit Sittisudjatum &gt; 
www.thaiflight.com &lt;<A target=_blank 
href="http://www.thaiflight.com">http://www.thaiflight.com</A>&gt; &gt; &gt; Bangkok, 
Thailand &gt; &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________ Simpits-tech 
mailing list Simpits-tech@simpits.org <A target=_blank 
href="http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech">http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech</A> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the 
above page. Thanks! </BODY></HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C274AE.5C367700--

--------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary--