[simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the pit?

Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:26:08 +1100

Hi Craig,

You got a really good point there. the running cost factor, price factor and
difference between portable and window system. If the whole window mount
unit is within the flat and use a flex-hose to duct the heat to the outside.
I can possibly "rearrange" something in the lounge room so the unit can be
place on a stand like you mentioned before. In my room where the pit is,
there are no spare room to do this. If I run a host to draw air out of the
cockpit and feed into the aircond air intake and one supply the cool air
back into the pit as per your diagram. That sounds it will work well. I
would imagine roughly the potential location of the air conditioner from the
cockpit will require about....10 metres, 30ft of hose running along the
walls.

The bit I love the most is "No changesto the window would be required". Just
some minor interior redecoration. Providing that the air conditioner inside
the lounge room do not create a massive amount of heat from the motor and
noise. (I am presuming that the air conditioner unit will blow the heat from
the compressor and fan through the rear, so there will be minimal amount of
heat from the unit adding to the room's temperature? Correct me on this if
Im wrong) It can work great.

Firstly, I can air condition the lounge room if I have guest coming around.
Secondly, If noise and heat is a factor. The time that I uses the cockpit is
at night and after dinner time when the lounge room is very much free. I
wont be annoying anyone in my household. Finally, a second hand window mount
air conditioner might do the job as an experiment just for learning sake.
Upgrade to a better one later when I aquire some more knowledge and
confident on this type of electronics.

Thanks once again Craig.

Albert
Sydney, Australia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Rochester" <johncraigroch@msn.com>
To: <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the pit?

> Hi Albert,
>
> A portable unit would be fine.  I had thought of suggesting this, but they
> cost about twice as much as a window unit.  The picture is misleading as
it
> doesn't show the flex-hose that connects to the back.  The only real
> difference is that the portable unit  and a window unit, is that the
> portable is built to connect a flex hose duct to the back and blow the
heat
> somewhere else(hopefully outside).  See here:
> http://www.coolestspot.com/products/coolit2000main.shtml
>
> You could simply modify a cheap window unit($200US vs. $400US new) to do
the
> same thing.  Some sheet metal, a duct collar, and a flex hose (about
$20US)
> and you've got the same thing.  For refrigerant cooling, you're using
> electricity to move the heat from one place to another and it takes energy
> to do that: about 1kW to move 2kW of heat.  That means the energy to move
> the heat(cool) adds heat to the room.  The heat from the compressor and
fan
> motor is blown out the back of the unit.  So why couldn't you just point
the
> flex-hose toward the window(or door)?  No changes to the window would be
> required.
>
> As far as cost, there's no free lunch (1st law of thermodynamics).  A 1 kW
> unit will use about 1/2 kW per hour of electricity .  Where I live that's
> about  $0.05US an hour to operate.
>
> Craig R.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]
> On Behalf Of Albert Yung
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:13 AM
> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the
pit?
>
> Craig,
>
> I think the duct in the F16 is located between your legs infront of the
> ejection handle. not sure if there are any others...I am sure there are. I
> have follow up your question to a few F16 crew chiefs I know from my VFW.
> Hopefully they will come online and give me some good info in a few hour's
> time.
>
> I think its very clever to use the Air Cond. panel to actually controls
the
> air float inside the pit. Another boost in realism. Why didnt I thought of
> that before??
>
> Craig, on another note, I would like to hear your opinion on these
portable
> I have found.
>
> http://www.gasmart.com.au/html/dimplex_.html
>
> Its not as good as a window mount system. However, it can save me a hell
of
> a lot of installation, breaking the window and security bars. Plus not
have
> to worry kids vendalising something half stuck out the window. The cost of
> them is only a few hundred dollars Australian more compare to a window
mount
> system. The flat I live in now its my parents, and they are concern with
> electric bills associated with an air conditioner despite the fact now
that
> I work and can pay for a little addition to living standard...they are
just
> old school. Instead of trying to convince them and break the wall. I
thought
> I will go ahead and use this system to allow me to unplug the air
> conditioner from the pit and take it into my folk's bed room on a very hot
> night to give them better sleep. I think the concept would be the same
like
> you mentioned before, build a shrud around the outlet and feed the cool
air
> into the cockpit.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Albert
> Sydney, Australia
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- e
> From: "Craig Rochester" <johncraigroch@msn.com>
> To: <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:56 PM
> Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the
pit?
>
>
> > Hi Rod,
> >
> > Sounds like you have a well thought out plan.  That's a good idea to
cool
> > the panel and monitors with ventilation and having  the A/C for the
> interior
> > separate.   The "mixing box" for modulating the A/C temperature is
> perfect.
> > You'll get a nice, even supply temperature without the cycling on/off
with
> a
> > thermostat type control.
> >
> > I've done a little searching for info on the F-16's A/C and found this
> link
> > for the "F-16C Air Conditioning Panel":
> > http://home.att.net/~sfinger/F16aircond.htm
> >
> > Any idea what RAM, DUMP, and NORMAL - AIR SOURCE means?  Am I correct in
> > assuming the left dial is a proportional control like on a car?  Anyone
> know
> > where the ducts and/or nozzles are in a jet?
> >
> > Craig R.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
> [mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]
> > On Behalf Of Rod Dale
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:17 PM
> > To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> > Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the
> pit?
> >
> > The thermosensor normally sits in or near the air exhaust outlet in the
> > cockpit. Most I've worked on have this outlet in the rear bulkhead
behind
> > the seat somewhere.
> > I'm going to duct my room aircon in/out of my F-111 as per Craig's
> diagram.
> > The outlets will be - 2 eyeball types in the centre overhead beam assy
and
> > one in each footwell (pilot and nav). These will have small PC power
> supply
> > type fans in them to force the air out. I'm planning on making a servo
> > controlled valve to allow more\less cool air in. This air will mix with
> the
> > ambient room temperature and hopefully make it reasonably comfortable.
The
> > servo will be controlled from the F-111 Aircon panel.
> > To cool the monitors I plan to have an exhaust fan in the front that
will
> > draw the hot air out from behind the instrument panel and two vents low
> down
> > on either side for the incoming room air.
> > I'm going to use the cabin pressure gauge as the temperature indicator,
> with
> > sensor located near the exhaust air outlet.
> > When I draw this up I will upload it.
> > Rod
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sean Galbraith <sean.g@paradise.net.nz>
> > To: <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 9:42 AM
> > Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the
> pit?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >Would someone like to come up with a temperature gauge that shows the
> > > >temperature inside the cockpit replacing an engine temp gauge or
other
> > > >gauge, would that be too tacky?
> > >
> > > I would imagine that most military pit's would have an A?C panel
anyway,
> > > with a thermostat in it.  I know the (1970 vintage) A-4k does, midway
> down
> > > the RH-Wedge panel....  Why not just use that?
> > >
> > > Sean.
> > >
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