[simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the pit?
Craig Rochester
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Sun, 24 Nov 2002 13:48:05 -0500
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Hi Albert,
I think ventilation is important to consider in the design. Not only for
your comfort, but for the reliability of the electronics. E.g.., if a
monitor is in the pit, that's a lot of heat. I live in Boston, USA and my
PC and 20" monitor heat my small 6' x 10' office(one exterior wall). You'll
probably want the make-up outside air to be directed at your body and then
flow out through the electronics to carry the heat away. I'd look into how
the F-16 does the ventilation and go from there.
Regarding the air conditioner, you can make the window unit work without
putting it in the window. You could just let the heat dump in the room and
put a good exhaust fan in the window. A better way would be to mount it on
a stand inside the room as close to the window as practicable. You would
then build a shroud over the exhaust louvers to(slits on sides and top) to
direct the hot air out of the window. Connect a medium sized fan to the
shroud with a large flex duct and attach the fan to the window bars. There
will also be condensation dripping from the air conditioner that will have
to be directed to a drain or bucket.
Craig R.
-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]On Behalf Of Albert Yung
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 1:01 PM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the pit?
G'day Craig,
Love your work, all those things you had mentioned are things that I have
not considered in great depth up to this point. Looks like if I was to put a
canopy on the pit. I will be jumping into a real deepend. This weekend I was
just drawing up plans for the hull and how I will have to construct it
differently if an enclosed canopy will be place ontop. Do you think its
worth while to be paranoi (like myself) to worry about all these things so
early on...or should I just go ahead and build the damn thing up then I can
get some realistic measures of T and RH inside the pit. Then I can figure
out if I need some sort of active cooling?
The window air conditioner option is definetly out. I live in a place
where I wont even dare to stick a satellete dish out the window, it will get
knock off too easily. So my only mean to cool this room down is the option
of one portable air conditioner or evaporative cooler that does not include
an outdoor component to function.
Thanks for making this sophiscated concept relatively simple to
understand.
I will shot you a private email asap.
Cheers,
Albert
p.s. Gene, I think this is definetly a good topic article for the
simpits.org site. What do you reckon?
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Rochester
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 3:38 AM
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the
pit?
Finally a question I'm qualified to answer. :) I do a lot of HVAC in my
work.
Before you decide on cooling you should consider ventilation first.
Your pit is basically a small room in a larger room. Here are the basic
details to evaluate:
1.. What AC and or ventilation do you have in the room the pit is in?
I.e. room size, AC air flow rate, AC air supply temperature(out of duct).
2.. What outside air conditions, Temperature(T) and Relative
Humidity(RH) does you location see summer/winter?
3.. What clothing and/or helmet and mask equipment will you use?
4.. If you use a "oxygen mask" where will the air come from and where
will it exhaust?
5.. How much heat will be generated by the equipment in the pit?
The RH is a very important parameter that is often overlooked. The
simplest way to get rid of the humidity and heat generated by you and the
equipment is to exhaust it out. What goes out must be made up "Outside Air
Make-up"(OA) and this must be cold enough and dry enough to provide a T and
RH equilibrium that is comfortable. IF the room's air is good enough to
provide sufficient OA to the pit all you need to do is have an exhaust
system(simple fan) with vents located to direct the OA air through the pit.
If you room is too warm or humid to knock down the T/RH of the pit, then
active cooling is required. If cost is important and you're handy(if you
can build a pit...) I'd use a regular window air conditioner and build a
shroud around the "evaporator" section, the part that goes outside the
window. The shroud would be connected to a fan to blow the air outside the
room through the bars. The room-side of the air conditioner would be
directed to the pit's OA make-up.
I'd be glad to provide assistance in determining the details if you
wish.
Craig R.
-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]On Behalf Of Albert Yung
Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:16 AM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: [simpits-tech] How do you deal with temperature inside the
pit?
Hi guys,
This is a question especially for those of you who have or planning on
building an enclose cockpit (especially for the f16), i.e. with a canopy.
How do you deal with temperature that will bound to build up within the pit?
Heat generated from all the electronics, backlid panels, extra
monitors (If you are not using a projector) and your own body heat
The only reason why I want to have a canopy is not for aesthetic but
for "Sound proofing" myself when I talk over RW (because I share room).I
dont want to "premanently" sound proofing myself by suffercating myself from
within the cockpit. Turning the pit into a coffin :)
To make matter worse I live in a flat where I cant break any walls to
put in a ducted reverse cycle air cond... I have grills and bars on my
windows to keep out intruders so no way I can put in a wall/window mounted
air cond. My only hope would be a portable air conditioner or one of those
evaporative coolers...modify it and throw an inlet into the pit.
My second question would be, evaporative coolers, are they any
effective in cooling the inner space of the f16 pit? because the price of
one of them is like 1/10 of a portable air conditioner.
Would love to hear all of your thoughts :)
Albert
Sydney, bloody boiling in Austraila
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D203072018-24112002>Hi=20
Albert,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D203072018-24112002>I=20
think ventilation is important to consider in the design. Not only =
for=20
your comfort, but for the reliability of the electronics. E.g.., =
if a=20
monitor is in the pit, that's a lot of heat. I live in =
Boston, USA=20
and my PC and 20" monitor heat my small 6' x 10' office(one =
exterior=20
wall). You'll probably want the make-up outside air to be directed =
at your=20
body and then flow out through the electronics to carry the heat=20
away. I'd look into how the F-16 does the ventilation and go from=20
there.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002>Regarding the air conditioner, you can =
make the=20
window unit work without putting it in the window. You could just =
let the=20
heat dump in the room and put a good exhaust fan in the window. A =
better=20
way would be to mount it on a stand inside the room as close =
to the=20
window as practicable. You would then build a shroud over the =
exhaust=20
louvers to(slits on sides and top) to direct the hot air out of the=20
window. Connect a medium sized fan to the shroud with a large flex =
duct and=20
attach the fan to the window bars. There will also be condensation =
dripping from the air conditioner that will have to be directed to a =
drain or=20
bucket.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D203072018-24112002>Craig=20
R.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D203072018-24112002></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org=20
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Albert=20
Yung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 24, 1999 1:01 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [simpits-tech] How do =
you deal=20
with temperature inside the pit?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>G'day Craig,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Love your work, all those things you =
had=20
mentioned are things that I have not considered in great depth up to =
this=20
point. Looks like if I was to put a canopy on the pit. I will be =
jumping into=20
a real deepend. This weekend I was just drawing up plans for the hull =
and how=20
I will have to construct it differently if an enclosed canopy will be =
place=20
ontop. Do you think its worth while to be paranoi (like myself) to =
worry about=20
all these things so early on...or should I just go ahead and build the =
damn=20
thing up then I can get some realistic measures of T and RH inside the =
pit.=20
Then I can figure out if I need some sort of active =
cooling?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The window air conditioner option is =
definetly=20
out. I live in a place where I wont even dare to stick a satellete =
dish out=20
the window, it will get knock off too easily. So my only mean to cool =
this=20
room down is the option of one portable air conditioner or evaporative =
cooler=20
that does not include an outdoor component to function.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for making this =
sophiscated concept=20
relatively simple to understand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will shot you a private email=20
asap.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>p.s.<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
Gene, I think this=20
is definetly a good topic article for the simpits.org site. What do =
you=20
reckon?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djohncraigroch@msn.com =
href=3D"mailto:johncraigroch@msn.com">Craig=20
Rochester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dsimpits-tech@simpits.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org">simpits-tech@simpits.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 25, =
2002 3:38=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] =
How do you=20
deal with temperature inside the pit?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Finally a question I'm qualified to answer. :) I do a lot =
of HVAC in=20
my work.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Before you decide on cooling you should consider =
ventilation=20
first. Your pit is basically a small room in a larger room. =
Here are=20
the basic details to evaluate:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<OL>
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>What AC and=20
or ventilation do you have in the room the pit is =
in? I.e.=20
room size, AC air flow rate, AC air supply temperature(out of=20
duct).</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>What outside air conditions, Temperature(T) and Relative=20
Humidity(RH) does you location see summer/winter?</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>What clothing and/or helmet and mask equipment will you=20
use?</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>If you use a "oxygen mask" where will the air come from =
and where=20
will it exhaust?</FONT></SPAN>=20
<LI><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>How much heat will be generated by the equipment in the=20
pit?</FONT></SPAN></LI></OL>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>The RH is a very important parameter that is often =
overlooked. =20
The simplest way to get rid of the humidity and heat generated by =
you and=20
the equipment is to exhaust it out. What goes out must be made =
up=20
"Outside Air Make-up"(OA) and this must be cold enough and dry =
enough to=20
provide a T and RH equilibrium that is comfortable. IF the =
room's air=20
is good enough to provide sufficient OA to the pit all you need to =
do is=20
have an exhaust system(simple fan) with vents located to direct =
the OA=20
air through the pit.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If=20
you room is too warm or humid to knock down the T/RH of the pit, =
then active=20
cooling is required. If cost is important and you're handy(if =
you can=20
build a pit...) I'd use a regular window air conditioner and build a =
shroud=20
around the "evaporator" section, the part that goes outside the =
window. The shroud would be connected to a fan to blow the air =
outside=20
the room through the bars. The room-side of the air =
conditioner would=20
be directed to the pit's OA make-up.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>I'd be glad to provide assistance in determining the =
details if you=20
wish.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D415395515-24112002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Craig R.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org=20
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Albert=20
Yung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:16 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [simpits-tech] How do =
you deal=20
with temperature inside the pit?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi guys,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is a question especially for =
those of=20
you who have or planning on building an enclose cockpit =
(especially for=20
the f16), i.e. with a canopy. How do you deal with temperature =
that will=20
bound to build up within the pit?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Heat generated from all the =
electronics,=20
backlid panels, extra monitors (If you are not using a projector) =
and your=20
own body heat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The only reason why I want to =
have a canopy=20
is not for aesthetic but for "Sound proofing" myself when I talk =
over RW=20
(because I share room).I dont want to "premanently" sound proofing =
myself=20
by suffercating myself from within the cockpit. Turning the pit =
into a=20
coffin :) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>To make matter worse I live in a =
flat where I=20
cant break any walls to put in a ducted reverse cycle air cond... =
I have=20
grills and bars on my windows to keep out intruders so no way I =
can put in=20
a wall/window mounted air cond. My only hope would be a portable =
air=20
conditioner or one of those evaporative coolers...modify it and =
throw an=20
inlet into the pit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My second question would be, =
evaporative=20
coolers, are they any effective in cooling the inner space of the =
f16 pit?=20
because the price of one of them is like 1/10 of a portable air=20
conditioner.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Would love to hear all of your =
thoughts=20
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Albert</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sydney, bloody boiling in=20
=
Austraila</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTM=
L>
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