[simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think
Marv De Beque
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:45:19 -0500
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I agree. I wish you luck.
However, you might find programming is not so hard as you think. The other
thing that you should consider is no matter what your pin assignment you ca=
n
easily reconfigure the software to agree with it. It is not the pin
assignments that are your concern, but the functionality for each input
type.
That is, you can assign a function that handles the landing gear, which
should be two switches. There are actually three states to the F-16 gear.
UP, DOWN, and TRANSITIONING. You need two switches to capture those states=
.
It doesn=B9t really matter which inputs they are assigned to, because you can
redefine them in software very easily.
Another function example is when the dogfight switch is engaged some button=
s
on the ICP console are disabled.
Lastly, every function must have some sort of output. This is where the
keystrokes for that function are passed to the PC so they can be processed
in the sim program. Sort of where the rubber meets the street.
So, developing a function for each input type would be valuable. All you
need do is make sure that it can be easily redefined to the input(s) of you=
r
choice.
That would be a very worth while standard to do and my recommendation.
Marv
On 12/26/02 12:24 PM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wrote:
> You got a point there Marv, but if we/I make a wiring diagram for all the
> buttons and lamps in an F16 Block 50,
> then we mabe can find someone there is hardcore on EPIC to make the code =
for
> it !... and then we
> place the file for download "outthere" and by that way we have maked a
> "standard" for those to come !
> =20
> =20
> Frank
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marv De Beque <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com>
>> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think
>>=20
>> Had thought about that and actually discussed that with a few people.
>>=20
>> The idea has merit in that everybody has the same set up and we can shar=
e
>> knowledge and debugging tips.
>>=20
>> The reality is that it would take a lot of time to come to some agreemen=
t as
>> to what the standard should be. Look at the aircraft industry and you s=
ee
>> what I mean. ARINC standards are a good one, but they take years to com=
e to
>> a delusion and then nobody follows them when they do because of unforese=
en
>> needs.
>>=20
>> Now, I would think that we could come to an agreement faster than ARINC =
does
>> on a standard for EPIC. However, there are a number of us that already =
have
>> work invested in their own cockpits and the associated wiring. Even if =
we
>> reached an agreement, chances are everyone that already has stuffed wire=
d up
>> would be violating the new standard. How many of those people do you
>> believe would rebuild their systems just to comply with a new standard?
>>=20
>> Personally, I think the best hope is to find one or two others that are =
at
>> the same development point as you are and hammer out a standard with inp=
ut
>> from anyone else that is interested.
>>=20
>> Right now I am up to my eyeballs with alligators, so I don=92t have the ti=
me to
>> invest in that part of the project. Otherwise, I would lend a hand.
>>=20
>> Marv
>>=20
>>=20
>> On 12/26/02 4:03 AM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi all !
>>>=20
>>> Idea is to make a standard way to wireing the EPIC Input/Output-module
>>> to the panels and one EPIC-file by that way we have created a complet
>>> F16 pit - that all newbees can use, (inclued my self)
>>>=20
>>> All the best
>>> Frank
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Marv De Beque <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com>
>>>> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:19 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think
>>>>=20
>>>> Not sure what the =93idea=94 is that you are asking about.
>>>>=20
>>>> On 12/25/02 7:10 PM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Is it a bad idea ???
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Frank
>>>>>=20
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Frank Riedel <mailto:frank@rezultat.dk>
>>>>>> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:52 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Hi Martin "Pegasus" and all other that can help !
>>>>>> Now that we are close to the year 2003, and we all
>>>>>> have make a fantastic work by collecting huge data about
>>>>>> simulator and by that way help one and another... include my self
>>>>>> I startet out collecting information and nowhow at January 2002
>>>>>> and came out this year and have already make all panels with backlig=
ht
>>>>>> and now in construction face of my "pit" by help from ALL you guys..=
.
>>>>>> THANKS ALOT ALL
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I just need to wireing up all the panels... but when i come to progr=
aming
>>>>>> i am
>>>>>> a real "NewBee" and other upcomming pitters will came in same situat=
ion,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> was thinking off makeing a standard connection (wiering) of all the
>>>>>> panels.
>>>>>> I can make all the diagrams look here
>>>>>> http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wireing.htm
>>>>>> <http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wireing.htm> (Not finished)
>>>>>> Will any of you be able to program an EPIC-file after this diagram ?=
??
>>>>>> if so... i think we then will have all drawings and wiering-diagram
>>>>>> complet !
>>>>>> and do any of you have any changes and "=B4hint" to the diagram just s=
peak
>>>>>> out ! ! !
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Frank
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "F16" <f16@xflight.de <mailto:f16@xflight.de> >
>>>>>> To: <simpits-tech@simpits.org <mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org> >
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:14 PM
>>>>>> Subject: AW: [simpits-tech] Epic hardware
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> > Hi Frank,
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> > the 64BTN modul you can buy - I think - only in Europe by
>>>>>>> MicroCockpit. To
>>>>>>> > the 64BTN modul you must have an ABA modul. The 64BTN modul is fo=
r
>>>>>>> INPUT,=20
>>>>>>> > the 32-point output modul is for OUTPUT. Here is a short descript=
ion
>>>>>>> for=20
>>>>>>> > the ABA-, 64BTN- and 32-point output modul (more see on my site
>>>>>>> > (http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm
>>>>>>> <http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm> ):
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> > ABA modul:
>>>>>>> > The ABA module is the heart of the system. You can connect up to =
4
>>>>>>> 64BTN=20
>>>>>>> > modules to it, as well as power 16 analog channels. This module i=
s
>>>>>>> > connected to the first expansion module by two flat cables.
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> > 64BTN modul:
>>>>>>> > Up to 64 push-buttons or switches can be connected to this module=
.
>>>>>>> EPIC can=20
>>>>>>> > then identify each of them. As EPIC registers any change of each
>>>>>>> switch and=20
>>>>>>> > processes it separately, only one cable is required to power norm=
al
>>>>>>> > switches. The ABA can receive up to 4 64 BTN modules, which give =
you
>>>>>>> up to=20
>>>>>>> > 256 different controls to be powered.
>>>>>>> > On one 64BTN modul you can connect and checked 64 buttons, switch=
es
>>>>>>> and=20
>>>>>>> > other digital INPUT parts.
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> > 32-point output modul:
>>>>>>> > Using this module, which is connected to the First Expansion Modu=
le
>>>>>>> via=20
>>>>>>> > EPIC-Bus, up to 32 digital output channels can be powered. That m=
eans,
>>>>>>> that=20
>>>>>>> > you can activate lights, electric motors and other devices. Each
>>>>>>> channel=20
>>>>>>> > can handle 3 to 50V. Up to 4 Output Modules can be installed, giv=
ing
>>>>>>> you=20
>>>>>>> > 128 channels to be used. On one output modul you can steer up to =
32
>>>>>>> LED,=20
>>>>>>> > lamps or engines. This module is for the OUTPUT.
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> > I hope it is helpful for you.
>>>>>>> > Martin "Pegasus"
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Simpits-tech mailing list
>>>>>>> > Simpits-tech@simpits.org <mailto:Simpits-tech@simpits.org>
>>>>>>> > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
>>>>>>> <http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech>
>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the =
above
>>>>>>> page. Thanks!
>>>>>>> >=20
>>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20
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<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">I agree. I wish you luck. <BR>
<BR>
However, you might find programming is not so hard as you think. The =
other thing that you should consider is no matter what your pin assignment y=
ou can easily reconfigure the software to agree with it. It is not the=
pin assignments that are your concern, but the functionality for each input=
type.<BR>
<BR>
That is, you can assign a function that handles the landing gear, which sho=
uld be two switches. There are actually three states to the F-16 gear.=
UP, DOWN, and TRANSITIONING. You need two switches to capture t=
hose states. It doesn’t really matter which inputs they are assi=
gned to, because you can redefine them in software very easily.<BR>
<BR>
Another function example is when the dogfight switch is engaged some button=
s on the ICP console are disabled.<BR>
<BR>
Lastly, every function must have some sort of output. This is where t=
he keystrokes for that function are passed to the PC so they can be processe=
d in the sim program. Sort of where the rubber meets the street.=
<BR>
<BR>
So, developing a function for each input type would be valuable. All =
you need do is make sure that it can be easily redefined to the input(s) of =
your choice.<BR>
<BR>
That would be a very worth while standard to do and my recommendation.<BR>
<BR>
Marv<BR>
<BR>
On 12/26/02 12:24 PM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wr=
ote:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">You got a point there =
Marv, but if we/I make a wiring diagram for all the buttons and lamps in an =
F16 Block 50,<BR>
then we mabe can find someone there is hardcore on EPIC to make the code fo=
r it !... and then we<BR>
place the file for download "outthere" and by that way we have ma=
ked a "standard" for those to come !<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Frank<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">----- Original Message -----=
<BR>
<B>From:</B> Marv De Beque <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> <BR>
<B>To:</B> simpits-tech@simpits.org <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:22 PM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think<BR>
<BR>
Had thought about that and actually discussed that with a few people.<BR>
<BR>
The idea has merit in that everybody has the same set up and we can share k=
nowledge and debugging tips.<BR>
<BR>
The reality is that it would take a lot of time to come to some agreement a=
s to what the standard should be. Look at the aircraft industry and yo=
u see what I mean. ARINC standards are a good one, but they take years=
to come to a delusion and then nobody follows them when they do because of =
unforeseen needs.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I would think that we could come to an agreement faster than ARINC doe=
s on a standard for EPIC. However, there are a number of us that alrea=
dy have work invested in their own cockpits and the associated wiring.  =
;Even if we reached an agreement, chances are everyone that already has stuf=
fed wired up would be violating the new standard. How many of th=
ose people do you believe would rebuild their systems just to comply with a =
new standard?<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I think the best hope is to find one or two others that are at =
the same development point as you are and hammer out a standard with input f=
rom anyone else that is interested. <BR>
<BR>
Right now I am up to my eyeballs with alligators, so I don=92t have the time =
to invest in that part of the project. Otherwise, I would lend a hand.=
<BR>
<BR>
Marv<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 12/26/02 4:03 AM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wro=
te:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Hi all !<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Idea is to make a standard way to =
wireing the EPIC Input/Output-module<BR>
to the panels and one EPIC-file by that way we have created a complet<BR>
F16 pit - that all newbees can use, (inclued my self)<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">All the best<BR>
Frank<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">----- Original Message -----=
<BR>
<B>From:</B> Marv De Beque <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> <BR>
<B>To:</B> simpits-tech@simpits.org <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:19 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think<BR>
<BR>
Not sure what the =93idea=94 is that you are asking about.<BR>
<BR>
On 12/25/02 7:10 PM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wro=
te:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Is it a bad idea ???<B=
R>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Frank<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><B>From:</B> Frank Riedel <mailt=
o:frank@rezultat.dk> <BR>
<B>To:</B> simpits-tech@simpits.org <BR>
<B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 23, 2002 10:52 AM<BR>
<B>Subject:</B> [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Hi Martin "Pegasus" and =
all other that can help !<BR>
Now that we are close to the year 2003, and we all<BR>
have make a fantastic work by collecting huge data about<BR>
simulator and by that way help one and another... include my self<BR>
I startet out collecting information and nowhow at January 2002<BR>
and came out this year and have already make all panels with backlight<BR>
and now in construction face of my "pit" by help from ALL you guy=
s...<BR>
THANKS ALOT ALL<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">I just need to wireing up all the =
panels... but when i come to programing i am<BR>
a real "NewBee" and other upcomming pitters will came in same sit=
uation, I<BR>
was thinking off makeing a standard connection (wiering) of all the panels.=
<BR>
I can make all the diagrams look here http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wirei=
ng.htm</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/ful=
l-wireing.htm> </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">(Not finished)<BR=
>
<B>Will any of you be able to program an EPIC-file after this diagram ???<B=
R>
</B>if so... i think we then will have all drawings and wiering-diagram com=
plet !<BR>
and do any of you have any changes and "´hint" to the diagr=
am just speak out ! ! !<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">Frank<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR>
</FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "F16" <f16@xflight.de</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana">=
<mailto:f16@xflight.de> </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">>=
<BR>
To: <simpits-tech@simpits.org</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <mai=
lto:simpits-tech@simpits.org> </FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">&g=
t;<BR>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:14 PM<BR>
Subject: AW: [simpits-tech] Epic hardware<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2">> Hi Frank,<BR>
> <BR>
> the 64BTN modul you can buy - I think - only in Europe by MicroCockpit=
. To <BR>
> the 64BTN modul you must have an ABA modul. The 64BTN modul is for INP=
UT, <BR>
> the 32-point output modul is for OUTPUT. Here is a short description f=
or <BR>
> the ABA-, 64BTN- and 32-point output modul (more see on my site <BR>
> (http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D=
"Verdana"> <http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm> </FONT><FONT=
SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">):<BR>
> <BR>
> ABA modul:<BR>
> The ABA module is the heart of the system. You can connect up to 4 64B=
TN <BR>
> modules to it, as well as power 16 analog channels. This module is <BR=
>
> connected to the first expansion module by two flat cables.<BR>
> <BR>
> 64BTN modul:<BR>
> Up to 64 push-buttons or switches can be connected to this module. EPI=
C can <BR>
> then identify each of them. As EPIC registers any change of each switc=
h and <BR>
> processes it separately, only one cable is required to power normal <B=
R>
> switches. The ABA can receive up to 4 64 BTN modules, which give you u=
p to <BR>
> 256 different controls to be powered.<BR>
> On one 64BTN modul you can connect and checked 64 buttons, switches an=
d <BR>
> other digital INPUT parts.<BR>
> <BR>
> 32-point output modul:<BR>
> Using this module, which is connected to the First Expansion Module vi=
a <BR>
> EPIC-Bus, up to 32 digital output channels can be powered. That means,=
that <BR>
> you can activate lights, electric motors and other devices. Each chann=
el <BR>
> can handle 3 to 50V. Up to 4 Output Modules can be installed, giving y=
ou <BR>
> 128 channels to be used. On one output modul you can steer up to 32 LE=
D, <BR>
> lamps or engines. This module is for the OUTPUT.<BR>
> <BR>
> I hope it is helpful for you.<BR>
> Martin "Pegasus"<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> _______________________________________________<BR>
> Simpits-tech mailing list<BR>
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <mailto=
:Simpits-tech@simpits.org> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">> http://www.simpits.org/mailma=
n/listinfo/simpits-tech</FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"> <http://www.si=
mpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech> <BR>
</FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial">> To unsubscribe, please see th=
e instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!<BR>
> <BR>
</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana"><BR>
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