[simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Sat, 11 Jan 2003 00:19:15 +1300

 I'll tell you what I think and what I have done as a guide to my
thoughts.
I have worked on servo driven gauges for quite a while now. 
Finally I have a design that a few have used and I've been happy with.
They work well. 
They are very much a DIY style and can be made with a great deal of
accuracy depending on how much time the individual wants to put into
them. 
Admittedly servo gauges have some draw backs, but for what most of "us"
are wanting to do with gauges they are fine. The good part is that the
cost is what I feel is reasonable or acceptable. To  make them all you
need is some sort of interface to drive the servo, there are various
forms on the market most are either serial port or USB and come for a
price of anything from $50 to $100. This will drive usually up to 8
servos. Once you have the interface I have found that a single pointer
servo gauge can be fabricated for as little as about $25. A dual pointer
for around $40. The more you build in a single session the price drops a
little more.
Obviously the complexity can become an issue for some instruments but
with a bit of thought most of them are possible (that is for gauges that
do not rotate continously at least). 
 So, with the pit I'm building I can create 8 single pointer instruments
for around $250 to $300. I think this is a reasonable price. I
personally would pay a little more if I went out and bought them off the
shelf as a plug and play solution.
So, the short answer for me is that I'd pay anything upto say $40-$60
each for plug and play type stuff, anything more than that and I'd do it
myself and save the money. At the end of the day I figure if I wanted to
have the instruments bad enough and couldn’t make them myself, then I'd
buy them other might feel differently of course.
 If the price if more like $100 per instrument, then I think your going
to limit your market. Most of us are building on a shoe string budget
and if the price gets too high then others will make the call to do it
themselves as I have. I went down this path because there was no other
alternative when I started looking. Now there is but just because there
is one it doesn’t automatically mean people will buy them. Price is a
big factor.

Hope I didn’t bore you to death here. JM2CW

Cheers
Chris. 

-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Marc Teichtahl
Sent: Friday, 10 January 2003 7:35 p.m.
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instrument

Chris,

As mentioned we are still sorting out pricing and bundling. What would
be useful is if you have any ideas of limits people would be willing to
pay given features versus costs etc 

-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Chris Brace
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 5:43 AM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Your feature sets is great, but the biggest/hardest question is really
what price range will a single instrument be in. 
For many pit builders price is a very large consideration and looking
your features I can quickly start to see $$$ in my eyes. Can you give us
any idea for the price range?

Cheers
Chris.

-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Marc Teichtahl
(mteichta)
Sent: Friday, 10 January 2003 3:47 a.m.
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Keenan,

Ill come back to you all with a more detailed description later. 

But, just to wet your appitie:

We are offering a complete plug and play solution supporting some 4000
instruments types and over 20 functional components such as radios,
throttles etc. All instruments have dimmable integral lighting where
appropriate.

If we don't have the ones you want in our generic list we can do a
custom build for you. All we will require is the the face graphics and
some basic operational information.

The system will comprise of a microcontroller based interface unit (USB
in CANbus out), some PC driver software supporting MS FS, CFS, X-Plane,
Falcon and PS1.3. Project Magenta is also supported and a number of
instruments. Every instrument is "intelligent" with its own
microcontroller. 

The instruments support up to 8 moving axis, upto 8 flags, 16 ASCII
digits, 16 Digital I/O, 2 driven PWM ports and 2 open collector PWM
ports. We even have a 360 degree full motion (for those aerobatics
people) HIS/AH;-). The sheer number of axis and flags means we can
replicate and/or retro fit the most complex instruments available.

This system has been developed for proffesional training systems and we
are "scaling" it down to support the price and feature requirements of
the hobbyist market. This means we have a very cost effective solution
that wont hurt the hip ocket too much.

If you have specific requirements you feel we should address please let
me know (marct@sim-instruments.com)

Furthermore, the insturments are a small part of our entire product
range. We offer complete cockpits, desktop trainers, parts, and custom
components.

Using the same controller we support the following systems

	Engines 			- Upto 8 engines per aircraft
(piston and/or turbine ( turbo prop) )
	Electrical Systems	- Models will be provided for each
aircraft type where the FS doesn't support the
					  required parameters. As for
the Systems below.
	Hydraulics Systems
	Air Systems
	Fuel Systems 
	Avionics System
	Communications Systems
	Lighting Systems
	Emergency Systems
	Flight Control Systems
	Payload Systems

We will also have the corresponding components (type specific). For
example radio heads, MCP, FMS, complete working overhead panels etc.

We are offering a complete SDK allowing the user to talk to our
interface unit in order to write their own systems. This SDK will have a
small associated cost but will allow the end user to completely
customise his/her cockpit. Alternative, we can do the custom work for
you.

We expect to come to market Mid to late march with the instruments and a
little later in the year with other parts. 

At the moment we are primarily focusing on the civilian transport
market. This is soley due to customer demand. However, I would
appreciate any feedback that will give me ammunition to change our
release targets to meet you needs sooner.

I look forward to giving you more information as we get closer to
release. 

If you have any questions please contact me (marct@sim-instruments.com)

-----Original Message-----
From: Akin, Keenan L [mailto:keenan.l.akin@boeing.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 6:11 AM
To: 'simpits-tech@simpits.org'
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Cool!  What types of instruments are you offering for us WWII types?

Keenan

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Teichtahl (mteichta) [mailto:mteichta@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 1:24 AM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Keenan,

Yes. We support CFS2

-----Original Message-----
From: Akin, Keenan L [mailto:keenan.l.akin@boeing.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 5:35 AM
To: 'simpits-tech@simpits.org'
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Marc,

Would these instruments also work with CFS2?

Thanks,
Keenan

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Teichtahl (mteichta) [mailto:mteichta@cisco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:10 AM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Jonas,

Sit tight for another month or so. Sim-instruments.com is coming to
market with a complete range of exact replica instruments. These can be
driven from

	Microsoft FS
	Falcon
	PS1.3
	Xplane

Costs are still be determined but they will be affordable and very high
quality.

When we are ready to launch we will post to this list and follow up
directly with you

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonas Frazier [mailto:spitpilot40@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 12:38 AM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: [simpits-tech] Using real instruments

Hi:
Is there any way to make the instruments used on the actual aircraft
work in 
a Sim? If so,  how is this done? Example: A real Dc-10 Turn and slip 
indicator to work in a dc-10 sim.
Thanks

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