[simpits-tech] Falcon4 Data

Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:25:53 -0500

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Just Curious Erwin,
What kind of computer were you trying to extract the graphics data from?
Would this be a problem that a leap in CPU horsepower or number of CPUs
would solve? I am not a programmer but, the fact that you were able to
extract data from video memory from the computer is quite a feat (IMHO).
V/R
Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]On Behalf Of Erwin Neyt
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 5:44 AM
To: 'simpits-tech@simpits.org'
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Falcon4 Data

May I comment on this?

Well I will:

First there is the issue of releasing an exe. I personally think it's a bad
idea to start releasing .exe's on your own. It could provoke a 'hostile'
reaction from the current developers, which could hurt the community as a
whole. It seems that G2I has some plans for OIR and F5, and although there
is some scepsis among most of us, it seems logical to wait and see where the
future of Falcon is progressing to. I spoke to G2I about this, and they have
shown a lot of interest in this matter, so I hope they will commit their
support to the current available data and put some effort in making the
display data available.
And please don't start flaming G2I, they took up a challange to develop a
new version of Falcon, only to find that the community (from which G2I
spawned) turned their back on them (well that's the impression I got reading
the forums). I think they lost sight of what we really want: an even better
hard-core F-16 sim.

Second on the actual modifications to get to the MFD data, I have tried to
accomplish a way to get to this data, only to find the current graphics
engine is not able to provide this data fast enough to be acceptable.
Some benchmark results:
I got a system running F4. On this system I get 35 fps without MFD
extraction. When I enable MFD extraction for only 1 MFD image (240x240), the
frame rates drop to 15 fps. That's too much a penalty IMO.
So I can conclude: with the current gfx engine (DX7) there is no structural
way to solve the MFD extraction problem.
Or to put it more technical: As long as there is no support for rendering to
a surface in system memory (needs DX8+) extracting a surface from display
memory is way to slow.
There is however an alternate approach (the above is focussed on
distributing data). This would involve implementing multi-monitor support,
and render the MFD to a second (local) display. (Currently there is no
multi-monitor support in Falcon)

so far my comments,

Erwin Neyt
-----Original Message-----
From: L39driver@aol.com [mailto:L39driver@aol.com]
Sent: woensdag 12 februari 2003 9:23
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Falcon4 Data
yes

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ju=
st
Curious Erwin,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

Wh=
at kind
of computer were you trying to extract the graphics data from? Would =
this be a problem
that a leap in CPU horsepower or number of CPUs would solve? I am not a
programmer but, the fact that you were able to extract data from video =
memory
from the computer is quite a feat (IMHO). =
<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>V/=
R<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ch=
ris<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><!=
[if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]<b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Erwin Neyt<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February =
12, 2003
5:44 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
'simpits-tech@simpits.org'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: =
[simpits-tech]
Falcon4 Data</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>May I comment on =
this?</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Well I =
will:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

First there is =
the issue
of releasing an exe. I personally think it's a bad idea to start =
releasing
.exe's on your own. It could provoke a 'hostile' reaction from the =
current
developers, which could hurt the community as a whole. It seems that G2I =
has
some plans for OIR and F5, and although there is some scepsis among most =
of us,
it seems logical to wait and see where the future of Falcon is =
progressing to.
I spoke to&nbsp;G2I about this, and they have shown a lot of interest in =
this
matter, so I hope they will commit their support to the current =
available data
and put some effort in making the display data =
available.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

And please don't =
start
flaming G2I, they took up a challange to develop a new version of =
Falcon, only
to find that the community (from which G2I spawned) turned their back on =
them
(well that's the impression I got reading the forums). I think they lost =
sight
of what we really want: an even better hard-core F-16 sim. =
<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

Second on the =
actual
modifications to get to the MFD data, I have tried to accomplish a way =
to get
to this data, only to find the current graphics engine is not able to =
provide
this data fast enough to be acceptable. <o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Some benchmark =
results:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

I got a system =
running
F4. On this system I get 35 fps&nbsp;without MFD extraction. When I =
enable MFD
extraction for only 1 MFD image (240x240), the frame rates drop to 15 =
fps.
That's too much a penalty IMO.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

So I can =
conclude: with
the current gfx engine (DX7) there is no structural way to solve the MFD
extraction problem. <o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Or to put it =
more
technical: As long as there is no support for rendering to a surface in =
system
memory (needs DX8+) extracting a surface from display memory is way to =
slow.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

There is however =
an alternate
approach (the above is focussed on distributing data). This would =
involve
implementing multi-monitor support, and render the MFD to a second =
(local)
display. (Currently there is no multi-monitor support in =
Falcon)<o:p></o:p><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>so far my =
comments,</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Erwin =
Neyt</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> L39driver@aol.com
[mailto:L39driver@aol.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> woensdag 12 =
februari 2003
9:23<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
simpits-tech@simpits.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[simpits-tech]
Falcon4 Data</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid blue 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial FAMILY=3DSANSSERIF><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>yes</span></font><font color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

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