[simpits-tech] Falcon4 Data

Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:33:29 -0600

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Erwin, thanks for commenting on the subject of MFD's and G2i.  I, for =
one,
have not lost faith

=20

Jay

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org =
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org]
On Behalf Of Erwin Neyt
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 4:44 AM
To: 'simpits-tech@simpits.org'
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Falcon4 Data

=20

May I comment on this?

=20

Well I will:

=20

First there is the issue of releasing an exe. I personally think it's a =
bad
idea to start releasing .exe's on your own. It could provoke a 'hostile'
reaction from the current developers, which could hurt the community as =
a
whole. It seems that G2I has some plans for OIR and F5, and although =
there
is some scepsis among most of us, it seems logical to wait and see where =
the
future of Falcon is progressing to. I spoke to G2I about this, and they =
have
shown a lot of interest in this matter, so I hope they will commit their
support to the current available data and put some effort in making the
display data available.

And please don't start flaming G2I, they took up a challange to develop =
a
new version of Falcon, only to find that the community (from which G2I
spawned) turned their back on them (well that's the impression I got =
reading
the forums). I think they lost sight of what we really want: an even =
better
hard-core F-16 sim.=20

=20

Second on the actual modifications to get to the MFD data, I have tried =
to
accomplish a way to get to this data, only to find the current graphics
engine is not able to provide this data fast enough to be acceptable.=20

Some benchmark results:

I got a system running F4. On this system I get 35 fps without MFD
extraction. When I enable MFD extraction for only 1 MFD image (240x240), =
the
frame rates drop to 15 fps. That's too much a penalty IMO.

So I can conclude: with the current gfx engine (DX7) there is no =
structural
way to solve the MFD extraction problem.=20

Or to put it more technical: As long as there is no support for =
rendering to
a surface in system memory (needs DX8+) extracting a surface from =
display
memory is way to slow.

There is however an alternate approach (the above is focussed on
distributing data). This would involve implementing multi-monitor =
support,
and render the MFD to a second (local) display. (Currently there is no
multi-monitor support in Falcon)

=20

so far my comments,

=20

Erwin Neyt

-----Original Message-----
From: L39driver@aol.com [mailto:L39driver@aol.com]=20
Sent: woensdag 12 februari 2003 9:23
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Falcon4 Data

yes=20

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Erwin, thanks for commenting on the
subject of MFD&#8217;s and G2i.&nbsp; I, for one, have not lost =
faith</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jay</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Erwin Neyt<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February =
12, 2003
4:44 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
'simpits-tech@simpits.org'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: =
[simpits-tech]
Falcon4 Data</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>May I comment on =
this?</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Well I =
will:</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

First there is =
the issue
of releasing an exe. I personally think it's a bad idea to start =
releasing
.exe's on your own. It could provoke a 'hostile' reaction from the =
current
developers, which could hurt the community as a whole. It seems that G2I =
has
some plans for OIR and F5, and although there is some scepsis among most =
of us,
it seems logical to wait and see where the future of Falcon is =
progressing to.
I spoke to&nbsp;G2I about this, and they have shown a lot of interest in =
this
matter, so I hope they will commit their support to the current =
available data
and put some effort in making the display data =
available.

</div>

<div>

And please don't =
start
flaming G2I, they took up a challange to develop a new version of =
Falcon, only
to find that the community (from which G2I spawned) turned their back on =
them
(well that's the impression I got reading the forums). I think they lost =
sight
of what we really want: an even better hard-core F-16 sim. =

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

Second on the =
actual
modifications to get to the MFD data, I have tried to accomplish a way =
to get
to this data, only to find the current graphics engine is not able to =
provide
this data fast enough to be acceptable.

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Some benchmark =
results:</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

I got a system =
running
F4. On this system I get 35 fps&nbsp;without MFD extraction. When I =
enable MFD
extraction for only 1 MFD image (240x240), the frame rates drop to 15 =
fps.
That's too much a penalty IMO.

</div>

<div>

So I can =
conclude: with
the current gfx engine (DX7) there is no structural way to solve the MFD
extraction problem.

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Or to put it =
more
technical: As long as there is no support for rendering to a surface in =
system
memory (needs DX8+) extracting a surface from display memory is way to =
slow.</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

There is however =
an
alternate approach (the above is focussed on distributing data). This =
would
involve implementing multi-monitor support, and render the MFD to a =
second
(local) display. (Currently there is no multi-monitor support in =
Falcon)

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>so far my =
comments,</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Erwin =
Neyt</span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> L39driver@aol.com
[mailto:L39driver@aol.com] <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> woensdag 12 =
februari 2003
9:23<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
simpits-tech@simpits.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[simpits-tech]
Falcon4 Data</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial
FAMILY=3DSANSSERIF><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>yes</span></font><font
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

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