[simpits-tech] Marv: driving DBQ gauges??

[Mark Doran]

Yikes!  Ask a simple question, get a lecture :)

I have responses for your points; we spent some time in considered
research before committing to an approach.  I'm not sure it's useful to
debate you here though.  I'm almost sorry I responded at all when you
asked why we chose EPIC -- I wasn't looking for a drubbing or to provoke
a reaction.

Please understand that I certainly didn't mean to imply anything other
than phidgets don't make sense for *us* in *our* project context and
"cost" model...everyone else must make their own conclusions based on
their context.  I have no intent or motivation to promote EPIC over any
other solution to anyone else.  If my comments gave offense, I'm sorry.

Obviously your conclusions and our conclusions are at odds for our
various reasons.  If you do want to hear more about our thinking, I
believe I live locally to you (somewhat: OLM) so perhaps offline over a
beverage or two would be the best way :).

I'll offer one observation in general that I think is germane based on
being a relatively silent observer here for the last couple of years:

I think integration of components from multiple engineering disciplines
is *the* most underestimated problem that the home cockpit builder
faces.  Throwing time at it is an approach but throwing money as
well/instead might in fact be necessary to succeed in the end.  Everyone
has their own trade-off on that scale based on the
cash/time-availability and "pressure to ever finish one of these things"
ratios.

Cheers,

Mark.


-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:40 PM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Marv: driving DBQ gauges??

> EPIC ties together inputs/outputs and transducers of
> various sorts together in ways that would only be
> possible with phidgets by writing code for the phidgets
> that replicates much of what EPIC EPL does already.
>
This doesn't make any sense to me.  EPL doesn't provide anything special
that can't be done with the same ease in another environment.

> Our analysis is that the extra
> coding/testing/integration work involved in using
> phidgets far outweighs any initial cost saving you
> might realize in buying hardware.
>
I think the word I'm looking for here is "poppycock". :)

Starting from a pure input standpoint, you're already $350 ahead with
the
255 input Phidget. (They're $50).  With EPIC, you have to write programs
for EPIC in EPL as well as for the PC.  With Phidgets, you only write on
the PC.  An EPL/PC solution is _more_ expensive to deal with, especially
when looking at the total cost to build a solution.

I own both the ISA and USB EPIC boards as well as a host of their
peripheral boards.  I also work with some of the Phidgets that are
available.  There is _no_ way you're going to tell me (or anyone else
that
can think) that a total EPIC solution is cheaper than the same solution
implemented in Phidgets.  (ok, technically it's possible, but it
involves
hiring a prima-donna programmer that's charging FAR more than he's
worth)



 > Tight integration is important because Falcon4 SP3, our
> software of (no- ;) choice at present, has some serious
> gaps in the way analogs, button inputs, lamp outputs
> and shared memory data are managed.  These gaps require
> some "papering" over with code bound to the
> simulator...that's harder to do if your various I/O
> systems are not controlled from the same code (or code
> that at the least has other means to share "event"
> handling).

You'll maintain two code bases (EPL and host pc) with EPIC, and one
codebase with Phidgets.  You're not losing any "integration" by using a
Phidget.  If someone is telling this, they're blowing smoke up your
butt.

BTW, Falcon is a _very_ poor example.  It's shared memory area is a
kludge
at best.  If you _must_ use Falcon, download the source code (it's still
floating around out there) and implement *correct* interfacing support.

BTW, Both Battle of Britain and MiG Alley from Rowan Software have been
released in source form so they'd both be great candidates for adding
cockpit integration routines to support both Phidget and EPIC solutions.



 > Hence my question of Marv (or anyone else
;)...has > anyone already thought about how to hook servos up to
> an EPIC??
>
Grab a PhidgetServo.  Add the code to your existing host pc code.  Done.
Hell, Robert Favre could add phidget support to his MFD program in
seconds and for that matter so could you.  It already talk to Falcon4
and
is freely downloadable from the ftp site.

g.



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