[simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
Marv De Beque
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Thu, 17 Oct 2002 06:07:32 -0400
Explain what you mean about the size of the gimbal?
--
> From: "Sukit, Sittisudjatum" <SukitS@state.gov>
> Reply-To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 21:44:28 -0400
> To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>
> Marv,
>
> Considering what you've explained, I have no doubt that the mod kit will be
> what I really want :)
>
> I also plan to put a canopy's frame on my pit... The height of the frame
> will give a feeling that we really sit in the pit during a flight, not just
> leave the canopy opened like most all the commercial pits. For those who
> has to live with the original Cougar base will face a problem with that 4 cm
> space between the stick and the canopy rail, the software setting that we
> can do on the Cougar would not help, too. Definitely, only the replica
> stick base will allow all the panels installed correctly on the right
> console. I can't see any other alternative though... that leads to the
> problem with the size of gimbals again :(
>
> About your mechanical stick, I have your drawing (the one you posted)
> somewhere... I was impressed :)
>
> Now, a question about the throttle... I did some measurement on the throttle
> quadrant and found 65 degrees traveling from engine-cutoff to maximum
> afterburner position. Then for the Cougar throttle, the traveling from 0 to
> 100% is 60 degrees. Can anyone confirm this?
>
> Sukit Sittisudjatum
> www.thaiflight.com <http://www.thaiflight.com>
> Bangkok, Thailand
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marv De Beque [ mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com
> <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:08 PM
> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>
>
> Sukit,
>
> The design I have should prevent no problems with regard to life span and it
> is very simple (which makes for better reliability).
>
> However, until I get my Cougar (maybe today or tomorrow), I can't complete
> the design.
>
> I have heard about the adjustment to limit the grip's travel on the Cougar.
> For me it would not work since I plan to put a canopy on my cockpit and the
> canopy rails are very close to the side of the stick. You would not be able
> to move the stick to the right without contacting the canopy. I think there
> is about 4 cm between the side of the stick grip and the canopy rail.
>
> For those that do not want a canopy, I think there are people interested in
> just having the "feel" of a real F-16 stick to add some realism to the sim.
>
> Also, my base will allow those with a cockpit to have all of the panels
> (LRUs) installed in the right side console.
>
> As a side note. My original no-move side stick I built is actually
> mechanical, not electrical. I used standard PVC 1.5" plumbing tubing as the
> core. The base is made from hardwood, shaped to the exact same size as the
> real base.
>
> The plastic PVC pipe runs down through the side console all of the way to
> the bottom of the cockpit. The top of the PVC pipe has three nylon disks
> stacked on top of each other. The center disk has a long 1/2" steel rod
> attached to it. The rod extends downward to the bottom where I mounted a
> CTS mini-stick. This is a tiny mechanical joystick with 100K pots.
>
> Back to the top set of disks... The center disk is sandwiched between two
> thicker disks that bolt together. Those thicker disks press fit into the
> top of the PVC pipe. By adjusting the bolts, I can set the tension for how
> stiff the stick moves. The 1/2" steel rod extends up past the top of the
> stick base and is what the grip is mounted to.
>
> The problem with the design was that the force required to move the grip is
> the same in all directions. So, I loosened those top bolts and added
> springs at the bottom of the steel rod to make the side to side and front to
> back independently adjustable. That works pretty well.
>
> My mechanical system only has about 1/4" of movement and 1/8" of that is due
> to the plastic grip flexing.
>
> Marv
> --
>
>
>> From: "Sukit, Sittisudjatum" <SukitS@state.gov>
>> Reply-To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:52:54 -0400
>> To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
>> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>>
>> Thank you, Marv and Erwin. You guys have so many information on hands.
>>
>> "While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special
>> coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight
> bit
>> of movement, just like the real thing."
>>
>> I'm thinking about that, too. The combination of transducer and some kind
>> of hard spring or rubber ring to allow movement. But the life of a the
>> rubber may not as long as we expect...then we have to think about spare
> part
>> again. I'm wondering if there is a possibility for ordering very small
>> quantity (less than 500 sets) of those small parts that you can't
>> manufactured them by yourself (spring, bush, rubber, etc.)
>>
>> During the weekend, I read a Cougar manual and found that we can set
> X-axis
>> and Y-axis to get a little movement, also get more sensitivity if wanted.
>> To prove it, I brought the baby out from the box and get it connected ...
>> man, it's so much easier than setting the F-22+TQS that have been used for
>> years. When activate the Cougar Hotas Software and set the movement of X
>> and Y axis to minimum (100% at the side bar for both upper and lower
>> side)... then having the sensitivity of both axis set to 32 (maximum
>> position, then the shape of the graph becomes 'S' curve instead of '/'
>> shape).
>>
>>
>> I tested it in the Falcon 4.0 flight, and found very interesting result, I
>> can reduce the movement the stick from ~60 degrees (30 to the left, 30 to
>> the right, and the same for pull and push) to something less than 30
> degrees
>> (15 degree on each side). By setting the sensitivity to the maximum
> value,
>> the stick responded very fast, I could perform a hard turn or full rolls
>> just when move the stick to approx. 5 degrees out from the center. Next,
> I
>> set the sensitivity to zero, and found that it has to be a full 15 degrees
>> from the center to get a full roll or hard turn.
>>
>> Sorry that I cannot remember the specific names of each values, but they
> all
>> show in the Cougar Control panel... and you Cougar owners should know what
> I
>> meant. My question is that 'Is it good enough compare to the real thing
> by
>> setting the Cougar this way?' and 'How can we eliminate the large gimbals
> or
>> make a modify kit with low cost to fit in a replica stick base?'
>>
>> Marv, please also try your Cougar (when arrive, of course) if the result
> is
>> appropriate.... Albert raised this cool idea when we had beer in Sydney.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sukit Sittisudjatum
>>
>> www.thaiflight.com < http://www.thaiflight.com <http://www.thaiflight.com>
>>
>>
>> Bangkok, Thailand
>>
>>
>> ----Original Message-----
>> From: Marv De Beque [ < mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com
> <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> >
>> mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> ]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 5:14 PM
>> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>>
>> The transducer is fully compatible with either the EPIC or the PC game
> port
>> with a signal of 0 to 5 volt.
>> Yes, my understanding is that the force required is +/- 25 lbs. for front
> to
>> back and +/- 10 lbs. for side to side.
>> I want to make mine user adjustable from those numbers just cited down to
>> something much lower. I don't know what the lower limit will be just yet.
>> Should have that dialed out in a week or two.
>> Sukit,
>> I am not sure about the actual amount of stick movement on the real
>> assembly. The earliest ones had none. Later, they added some play to give
>> about 1/32", but it was different for some directions. I have heard rumor
>> that they have relaxed the amount of movement even more to perhaps 1/4".
>> Mine will have something between the two numbers I quoted above. I have
> not
>> decided on the exact amount, but I think 1/8" is a good compromise.
>> While the transducer I am using has no movement, there will be a special
>> coupler between the grip and the transducer that will allow for a slight
> bit
>> of movement, just like the real thing.
>> Just like the my gauges, I am trying for a faithful replication of the
> F-16
>> side stick, right down to all of the shiny screws and various labels.
>> I am looking into making the rubber boot that the modern Block 50 uses
>> between the grip and the base. That will add the final touch. ;-)
>> Marv
>> --
>>
>>> From: "Sukit, Sittisudjatum" <SukitS@state.gov>
>>> Reply-To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
>>> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 03:37:27 -0400
>>> To: "'simpits-tech@simpits.org'" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
>>> Subject: [simpits-tech] Re: F-16 Force Transducer Side Stick
>>>
>>> Marv,
>>>
>>> I remembered that someone (you?) gave the information about 25Ibs for
> pull
>>> and push, 19Ibs (or 10 Ibis) for side to side.... and the stick can be
>> moved
>>> about dia 0.25" on the top. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if you're going to make a true replica, or a zero movement
>>> stick? Cause the strain gauge gives us no movement... Also, do we need to
>>> have EPIC card to convert the signal from your mod kit? Just curious.
>>>
>>> Sukit Sittisudjatum
>>> www.thaiflight.com < < http://www.thaiflight.com
> <http://www.thaiflight.com> >
>> http://www.thaiflight.com <http://www.thaiflight.com> >
>>>
>>> Bangkok, Thailand
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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