[simpits-tech] Monitor question
Erwin Neyt
simpits-tech@simpits.org
Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:32:10 +0100
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Let me explain why there is AGP.
In the old day when there was only PCI adapters, the software was restricted
by the amount of memory on the card. For example if a game wanted to load
5Mb textures into a 4Mb card it would fail.
So they invented AGP. Now the graphics card's memory is expanded with
'normal' system memory (you set this in your PC BIOS). Now when a game wants
to store textures, and the card has not enough available video memory, it
will start storing the textures in system memory.
As you see the AGP card will be slowed down severly if it needs to access
textures which are not in video memory. It needs to swap out vid.mem.
textures to make room and then load in the needed textures from sys.mem.
Bottom line: If a AGP card start to use it's AGP features, it's a bad thing
(performance wise). You want to have the AGP card act as if it was a plain
PCI card (with enough memory to hold all the textures).
Hope this simplifies it a bit
Erwin.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alan D. Mazurka [mailto:adm.design@verizon.net]
Sent: woensdag 11 december 2002 15:06
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Cc: adm.design@verizon.net
Subject: RE: [simpits-tech] Monitor question
HI, Ido.
well, you've got me spinning. if there is next-to-no difference between AGP
and regular PCI, then why do motherboard manufacturers bother to make the
slot? why do graphics card manufacturers bother to implement it? is there
more than just the memory bandwith considerations with the connector to make
it useful? is it because the AGP standard is so poor that PCI is outpacing
it??
and why doesn't every graphics card manufacturer just skip supporting the
slot since there is only one (AGP slot per motherboad) to begin with?
if you are correct, it all seems like a big waste of time, and that
everything everyone has told me about AGP is false. there _has_ to be a
premium with use of the connector _somewhere_, or (again) it all seems like
a waste of time.
if someone else can help clarify this, the help would be greatly
appreciated.
- adm -
At 09:44 AM 12/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
Actually if you look at this -
http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020718/radeon9700-04.html
<http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020718/radeon9700-04.html> you will
see that there is no difference for 3D also in AGP Vs PCI - there memory
throughput of the card is 19.4GB per second and what the AGP bus gives you
is 2GB per second , so it will never improve the cards performance unless
you use huge textures which doesn't happen in todays games and when it does
we'll get the 256MB of the 9700 or the new nVidia card.
The problem is that i didn't see any high end graphics cards for PCI yet -
the best I've seen is the GeForce 2 MX, if there was a radeon 9700 for PCI
then there wouldn't be much difference from the AGP one.
Ido
_____
Alan D. Mazurka Webspace Design & Implementation
adm.design@verizon.net
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<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Let me
explain why there is AGP.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In the
old day when there was only PCI adapters, the software was restricted by the
amount of memory on the card. For example if a game wanted to load 5Mb textures
into a 4Mb card it would fail.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So
they invented AGP. Now the graphics card's memory is expanded with 'normal'
system memory (you set this in your PC BIOS). Now when a game wants to store
textures, and the card has not enough available video memory, it will start
storing the textures in system memory.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As you
see the AGP card will be slowed down severly if it needs to access textures
which are not in video memory. It needs to swap out vid.mem. textures to make
room and then load in the needed textures from sys.mem.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Bottom
line: If a AGP card start to use it's AGP features, it's a bad thing
(performance wise). You want to have the AGP card act as if it was a plain PCI
card (with enough memory to hold all the textures).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hope
this simplifies it a bit</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=977001914-11122002>Erwin.</SPAN><SPAN
class=977001914-11122002></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=977001914-11122002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Alan D. Mazurka
[mailto:adm.design@verizon.net] <BR><B>Sent:</B> woensdag 11 december 2002
15:06<BR><B>To:</B> simpits-tech@simpits.org<BR><B>Cc:</B>
adm.design@verizon.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] Monitor
question<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>HI, Ido.<BR><BR>well, you've got me spinning. if
there is next-to-no difference between AGP and regular PCI, then why do
motherboard manufacturers bother to make the slot? why do graphics card
manufacturers bother to implement it? is there more than just the memory
bandwith considerations with the connector to make it useful? is it because
the AGP standard is so poor that PCI is outpacing it??<BR>and why doesn't
every graphics card manufacturer just skip supporting the slot since there is
only one (AGP slot per motherboad) to begin with?<BR><BR>if you are correct,
it all seems like a big waste of time, and that everything everyone has told
me about AGP is false. there _has_ to be a premium with use of the connector
_somewhere_, or (again) it all seems like a waste of time.<BR><BR>if someone
else can help clarify this, the help would be greatly
appreciated.<BR><BR> - adm - <BR><BR>At 09:44 AM 12/11/02 +0200, you
wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Actually if you look at this
-<BR><A
href="http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020718/radeon9700-04.html"
eudora="autourl">http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020718/radeon9700-04.html</A>
you will<BR>see that there is no difference for 3D also in AGP Vs PCI -
there memory<BR>throughput of the card is 19.4GB per second and what the AGP
bus gives you<BR>is 2GB per second , so it will never improve the cards
performance unless<BR>you use huge textures which doesn't happen in todays
games and when it does<BR>we'll get the 256MB of the 9700 or the new nVidia
card.<BR><BR>The problem is that i didn't see any high end graphics cards
for PCI yet -<BR>the best I've seen is the GeForce 2 MX, if there was a
radeon 9700 for PCI<BR>then there wouldn't be much difference from the AGP
one.<BR><BR>Ido<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP>
<P></X-SIGSEP>
<HR>
<BR>Alan D.
Mazurka
Webspace Design &
Implementation<BR>adm.design@verizon.net
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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