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And now, just to confuse things, Aviation Week is reporting a <a
href="http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/02234wna.xml">different
plan</a> (sort of):<br>
<br>
<blockquote><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">In addition to
their renewed interest in the FB-22 (a bomber-derivative
of the F/A-22 fighter) and the F-35B Stovl (short-takeoff and
vertical-landing) version of the Joint Strike Fighter, U.S. Air Force
leaders want to find money in the next few years for new combat
search-and-rescue helicopters, enhancements to A-10 ground-attack
aircraft and upgrades to existing fighters.</font><br>
<br>
<...><br>
<p>JSFs will eventually take on the Air Force's close air support
mission, although in the interim some A-10s will be enhanced to
continue the role. Other A-10s will be retired to free up funds to
upgrade the remaining aircraft. Hornburg says creating the A-10 "on
steroids" would involve upgrades: new avionics, new engines, precision
strike capabilities (only some of the ground-attack aircraft currently
carry a targeting pod) and data link additions. The exact components to
be added may not be known for some time, but Hornburg says that over
the summer the plan should exist at a macro level. </p>
<p>THE A-10S' ENGINES will likely be General Electric TF34-100Bs,
using
parts from the existing powerplants but adding 33-35% more thrust,
according to industry officials. The aircraft also would be slated for
a self-protection boost, with the common missile warning system and
Raytheon's Comet pyrophoric flare pod considered the likely devices to
be installed.<br>
</p>
</blockquote>
RTWT@:<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/02234wna.xml">http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/02234wna.xml</a><br>
<br>
--<br>
Mike<br>
<br>
Rob Hommel wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid020101c3fa94$de15f2b0$6b1bfecf@betty" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I think that the folks hanging the signs around their necks saying things
like Secretary of Defense and such are fighting the last war, like
politicians always do. The stealthy characteristics of the Comanche are
going to be substituted with the unmanned capabilities and low costs of the
Predator program. The Comanche program is nearly 20 years in review and
never adopted. There has been approx. 8 billion dollars spent on the program
and after the cancellation and money still owed to contractors on the
project the costs will still be in the neighborhood of 12 billion dollars.
Tell me that the politico's can't spend money and produce nothing.
The withdrawal of the A-10 and the substitution of the F-35 VSTOL for ground
support role is another failure of the military and the politicians to see
the long term benefit of proven weapons platforms vs. voter gains. The
military saw the writing on the wall from the other Washington and looked
for the best alternative. Politicians need to feed the voters jobs when the
cry goes out this is the only way they have to feed it by creating
government jobs. So where do you suppose the jobs will be created, given
that the F-35 is an international project with work being done in several
nations? When do you think they will even have a F 35 VSTOL platform that
will function. As has been pointed out the JSF has only one engine and has
fewer options to perform the job than the A-10. Where do they find these
politicians, did we really vote them into office? I think not. The only
thing nice I have to say about the JSF is that it will be a fairly easy
aircraft to build a sim of with an all glass cockpit.
Two bad decisions in two days, if you made that many bad decisions in the
same period of time you would be looking for a new job. Anyone want to hire
Donald Rumsfield, I wouldn't take him if he was available.
off my soapbox, still peeved.
Keep 'em Flying
Rob Hommel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Brogley" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mikebrogley@ieee.org"><mikebrogley@ieee.org></a>
To: "Simulator Cockpit tech list" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org"><simpits-tech@simpits.org></a>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] A-10 replacement
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Along these lines (air platform acquisition):
Army Leaders Recommend Canceling Comanche Helicopter Program
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2004/n02232004_200402237.html">http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Feb2004/n02232004_200402237.html</a>
(Dunno if anyone was building a simpit of one of these - woulda been
pretty cool.)
Chris Crowley wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">The real crime is going to be the cost. This is the worst
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->value/performance
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">point ever. The A10 could take it is cheap to maintain. The JSF is going
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->to
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">be very expensive and costly to maintain. Just look at the engine. A
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->single
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">engine pushing 40K plus thrust with extremely high temps. Not as
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->survivable
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">as the dual engine A10 either. Nor will the JSF have the punch of the
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->A10.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Its sad and its all about politics.
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brogley [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:mikebrogley@ieee.org">mailto:mikebrogley@ieee.org</a>]
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 2:35 PM
To: Simulator Cockpit tech list
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] A-10 replacement
That's exactly why - The Air Force is in the Gee Whiz business. There
are only two institutional constituencies in the USAF - strategic
bombers and fighters. There is no structural support for other missions
like recon or non-heavy mud-movers, and CAS is an even more specialized
form of moving mud, with the requirement to coordinate and be careful
where you drop things. The institution was about to obsolete the A-10
before the first Iraq war in 1991, but it did so well (and the F-16s
with the 30mm gun pod supposedly going to replace them did so poorly in
that role) that they were forced to keep (and -gasp- even spend budget
money upgrading) them.
Now they have a chance to argue that they need a common airframe for the
sake of economy of operations, plus they get to counter the
deployability issues with the STOVL (not VTOL) performance of the F-35
(and btw increase their airframe buy), with the plus that they can
finally get rid of that damn dedicated Army support airplane that
doesn't fit with their corporate culture.
What's laughable is that the real reaction to assigning the CAS mission
to something that can't loiter due to it's supersonic fuel consumption
(and the lack of tankers) will be moving CAS to long endurance armed
UAVs, so instead of having USAF pilots working from an A-10 cockpit,
they'll be working from a shipping container looking at a monitor
remotely flying a maverick-loaded predator _prop_plane_.
--
Mike
Steve Wilson wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Load 'er up with Mavericks and let loose. Frankly, I wonder why,
though. The A-10 is only 1/10th as geewhiz as the F-35, and likely
far better armored considering the VTOL version's need to stay light.
We don't need another supersonic tank killer. Like the DC-3, the
C-130 and the B-52, with the Warthog they achieved near perfection for
the role and created the best possible tank killer.
Steve W.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Justin Messenger <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jjmessenger@yahoo.com"><mailto:jjmessenger@yahoo.com></a>
*To:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Simpits-tech@simpits.org">Simpits-tech@simpits.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Simpits-tech@simpits.org"><mailto:Simpits-tech@simpits.org></a>
*Sent:* Sunday, February 22, 2004 10:53 AM
*Subject:* [simpits-tech] A-10 replacement
> The USAF has announced an intention to aquire
> a quanity of the VTOL version of the F35 JSF
> to replace the aging A10, in the CAS role.
>
> Source; Janes Defence.
> MC
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<pre wrap=""><!----> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailtag_us/*http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools?tool=1"><http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mailtag_us/*http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools?tool=1></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> - Read only the mail you want.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<pre wrap="">page. Thanks!
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