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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Actually, I was thinking more like cast resin
around a galvanized pipe core. :) But that's right, Craig, when one
factors in the fidelity quotient, one can reduce cost. Marv apparently got
hugely bit by the fidelity bug too, and that's why his unit became something
that could actually be used to train airborne warriors in the Real World
(tm).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The difference between a "high fidelity" version
and a "lesser" product, in my admittedly limited view, could boil down to what
material lies under the grey paint. Metal is essential for the handgrip as
the Coug has proven, but when the rest of the 'pit is either wood or fiberglass,
a plastic SSC casing is not that hard to stomach.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Steve</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=johncraigroch@msn.com href="mailto:johncraigroch@msn.com">Craig
Rochester</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=simpits-tech@simpits.org
href="mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org">Simulator Cockpit tech list</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 31, 2004 8:38
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] Marvs
SCC</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343062915-31012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Right Mike,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=343062915-31012004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004>The "flag pole" rod design, with POT based mechanical
displacement amplifiers</SPAN>,<SPAN class=343062915-31012004> and
no fancy housing could be made for about $40. This feels quite good,
though different than the SSC design and does not have differential travel for
the pitch axis. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004><A
href="http://pages.zdnet.com/johncraigrochester/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cambearing02.jpg">http://pages.zdnet.com/johncraigrochester/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/cambearing02.jpg</A></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004>That's a pic of a test rig. It wouldn't take
much more to make it quite usable. And one could make a faux base
out of wood. I flew Falcon4 with it and it was much more precise than
the Cougar base.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004>Craig R.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=343062915-31012004> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Mike
Williams<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:14 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
'Simulator Cockpit tech list'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [simpits-tech] Marvs
SCC<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">One other part should be factored in
to the machining cost, not all the parts need to be machined by a shop, some
are intricate, but some are not. From the drawings, there are certainly
parts in there that can be made by the novice machinist, cutting down shop
time. Craig has said the high fidelity model they designed could be
simplified down some for the less hard core types, don’t know his plans
there though. The intent of the design was for high fidelity from the start
and not a certain pricepoint. With the drawings being released to the
community I am sure there will be some individuals with the resources to cut
the cost way down. The LVDT conditioners can be had on ebay cheaply and at
least one of the LVDTs, the smaller LVDT will most likely have to be bought
retail. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Craig
Rochester<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday,
January 31, 2004 8:55 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Simulator Cockpit tech
list<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE:
[simpits-tech] Marvs SCC</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Hi
Steve,<BR><BR>You wrote:<BR><BR><FONT color=blue><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">"At least with Craig and Dave's homebrew plans, the cost
is sure to be a heckuva lot less than 2.5
G's"</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dave
estimated the shop time to produce the Viperpit.org SSC @ about 40
hrs. Let me pull a $/hr out of my bum --> $60.
That's $2,400 just for the machining. Of course that's for a single
unit and multiple units would bring this down some, but unless it were mass
produced in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">China</st1:place></st1:country-region>, it wouldn't reduce
the price that much.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=blue size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue">It certainly
isn't going to be the same quality as you are likely to
produce"</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This is NOT certain. The Viperpit.org worked
to the exact specifications for the real SSC. Dave's machining is
second to none. I'm not taking anything away from Marv's work, but on
what basis do you make your quality
assumption?</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Craig
R.</SPAN></FONT><FONT size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From:
simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org<BR>[<A target=_blank
href="mailto:simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org">mailto:simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org</A>]On
Behalf Of Steve Wilson<BR>Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 3:32 AM<BR>To:
Simulator Cockpit tech list<BR>Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Marvs
SCC<BR><BR><BR>Marv, the price is what it is. You deserve to be
compensated for your costs<BR>and efforts, and Chris Mihok has to get his
cut too, since he's your front<BR>man and distributor. It doesn't
help, though, that a project that as<BR>originally touted as something for
simpit builders ended up being so doggone<BR>good it was priced more for
Uncle Sugar and his henchmen at the Pentagon.<BR>Gads, good job dude, and
way to go. There's a perfectly understandable<BR>inflation factor
there too. I guess what's spouting off betwixt my ears<BR>here is the
length of time I and a lot of other guys, both here and<BR>elsewhere, spent
hoping the original was going to be something we could<BR>afford and would
be available soon, a "soon" that was more like a year ago.<BR><BR>And yes, I
do understand that the timing of this project is something worked<BR>around
*your* life and your convenience - you really never owed any of
us<BR>anything!! Bigtime.<BR><BR>I also understand you may have a
lesser priced version at some point - but<BR>how can I or anyone else ask
you to look into your crystal ball and ask how<BR>far in the future that's
going to be? At least with Craig and Dave's<BR>homebrew plans, the
cost is sure to be a heckuva lot less than 2.5 G's and<BR>the timing only
limited by our ability to get our own parts done. It<BR>certainly
isn't going to be the same quality as you are likely to produce I<BR>know,
and I regret that. The real thing is that, at some point,
the<BR>arrogance in me actually expects to finish building cockpit(s) and to
get<BR>down to the task of learning how to be the best F-16 sim driver that
I can<BR>be. That's the goal, at least for me.<BR><BR>But all that
**whining** aside, Marv, go sell the thing, go sell a thousand<BR>of
'em. You really don't owe me an apology for the price, but
thanks<BR>anyway.<BR><BR>It's not often that one's efforts in a hobby can be
turned into something<BR>worth literally thousands of dollars, and can
actually help defend this fine<BR>land of ours at the same time, at least
indirectly. For that<BR>accomplishment, you have my
respect.<BR><BR>Steve<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Marv
De Beque" <mdebeque@woh.rr.com><BR>To: "Simulator Cockpit tech list"
<simpits-tech@simpits.org><BR>Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 3:28
PM<BR>Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Marvs SCC<BR><BR><BR>>
Steve,<BR>><BR>> Sorry about the cost, but the sale price obviously
represents my cost for<BR>> the components, too.<BR>><BR>> That is
why we're considering a home builder version. Hopefully,
that<BR>will<BR>> address this market. I'll keep you posted as
things develop.<BR>><BR>> Marv<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
On 1/30/04 12:48 PM, "Steve Wilson" <mafsix@hotmail.com>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> > I got an unsolicited email from my ol' pal Chris
Mihok yesterday (ACC<BR>Prez).<BR>> > $2,520.00 - based on them
selling 12 units. No change from the last<BR>time I<BR>> > got
the info from Marv here in this fine forum. I'm sure at that
price<BR>a<BR>> > variety of buyers, mainly government/military, will
buy them. Certainly<BR>a<BR>> > nice thing to have, but
apparently not aimed at the casual simpit<BR>builder.<BR>> > I spent
just over a grand on my rudder pedals, so I don't mind spending<BR>> >
serious cash on a part for my overpriced playpen. But even I have
my<BR>> > limits! ;-)<BR>> ><BR>> > Steve W.<BR>>
><BR>> ><BR>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >
From: "Michi Hirczy" <mi.hi@gmx.net><BR>> > To:
<simpits-tech@simpits.org><BR>> > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004
1:03 AM<BR>> > Subject: [simpits-tech] Marvs SCC<BR>> ><BR>>
><BR>> >> Hey, Marv!<BR>> >><BR>> >> I
actually read the announcement at sim-news.com, that you teamed up<BR>>
>> with Advanced Computer Concepts for your SSC. Do you have any
pricing<BR>> >> information (i.e. nothing has changed since last
time, about 1.500,-)?<BR>> >><BR>> >> greetings<BR>>
>> michi<BR>> >> --<BR>> >> lg, michi<BR>>
>><BR>> >>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >>
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