From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 1 04:33:50 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 04:33:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <20120201023552.0ES9T.150878.imail@fed1rmwml208> References: <20120201023552.0ES9T.150878.imail@fed1rmwml208> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Hey Gene, in my research on visual systems, I came across a common issue > with curved/spherical screens and projectors. It has been noted that > even when you use software to warp and edge-blend the projectors for a > curved screen, areas further from the center of the screen go out of > focus. From the videos of your system, it doesn't appear this is an > issue, although I can't really tell for sure just from vids.....I would > guess that the relatively minor curve of your front-projection screen > keeps the focus issue to a minimum (another big advantage of your > system's use of a spherical mirror as opposed to projecting directly > onto a main screen), but I am curious: has this been an issue for you? > I haven't noticed any focus issues myself. The curve of the screen that each projector covers is pretty shallow, so that helps. > For folks projecting directly onto a curved screen, I have always > thought that it would be better to use some sort of lens on the > projector that would warp the image, as opposed to using software. I > even saw one sim builder mention this on the X-Plane.org forums, he had > a curved screen and mentioned just using a lens on the front of the > projector to warp things properly...I asked him about it but never got a > reply. > There may be a way to do this, but I don't know how. Wayne might have an idea or two. > It appears that the lens I seek is a simple fisheye/wide-angle lens, and > that planetariums actually use this concept for their projection > systems. It makes a lot more sense to use natural optics for the angle > correction, as opposed to taking away pixels from the image and trying > to shove it into shape with software. Plus you wouldn't need to spend > $500+ on warping software. :) > A lens that will properly distort the projector output will likely cost you a LOT more than $500. It would have to be custom-ground, and would likely require more than one. > Similarly, for people with cylindrical screens, a cylindrical mirror > could be used (I think?) whose angle is equal to the angle of the main > screen. > If they're using a fold mirror, then yes. There's a guy out there that' built a Jet Ranger sim from a written off airframe and he uses a curved fold mirror against a curved display screen. It's pretty slick. > Brainstorming. Fun.......now I need to find my card reader so I can > upload pics of my Jeppesen/PFC yoke that I hackerized into my sim. :) Neat! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From wledzian1 at comcast.net Wed Feb 1 07:03:51 2012 From: wledzian1 at comcast.net (Wayne Ledzian) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:03:51 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To fully correct an image with lenses alone would require specialized (read "$$$$") optics. A simple mirror would, however, get you fairly close, the main benefit being fewer wasted pixels. You'd still need the warping software to get the rest of the way. There are focus issues with our setup if you're specifically looking for them, but they're fairly minor. They're primarily in the form of a slight misalignment between the RGB channels towards the edges, and a small amount of focal blur, generally less than 1 pixel worth. It's really not noticeable once everything is aligned and blended. This was a consideration when choosing our projectors; in order to have minimum skew at the joints, we wanted a long-throw projector. In order to have maximum depth of field (distance at which focus is acceptable), we wanted a small lens. If we had used short-throw projectors, we'd have had to mount them much closer to the screen, with the result of more severe focal issues and strong skew at the edges. From frank at rezultat.dk Wed Feb 1 08:00:14 2012 From: frank at rezultat.dk (Frank Riedel) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 17:00:14 +0100 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi G. Congrats... please keep me informed for your release.... What Beamers are you using ?? Regards Frank 2012/2/1 Wayne Ledzian > > > To fully correct an image with lenses alone would require specialized > (read "$$$$") optics. A simple mirror would, however, get you fairly > close, the main benefit being fewer wasted pixels. You'd still need the > warping software to get the rest of the way. > > There are focus issues with our setup if you're specifically looking for > them, but they're fairly minor. They're primarily in the form of a slight > misalignment between the RGB channels towards the edges, and a small amount > of focal blur, generally less than 1 pixel worth. It's really not > noticeable once everything is aligned and blended. This was a > consideration when choosing our projectors; in order to have minimum skew > at the joints, we wanted a long-throw projector. In order to have maximum > depth of field (distance at which focus is acceptable), we wanted a small > lens. > > If we had used short-throw projectors, we'd have had to mount them much > closer to the screen, with the result of more severe focal issues and > strong skew at the edges. > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! > -- *Kindly Regards* *Rezultat* *Frank Riedel* Cell: +45 2424 4169 www.rezultat.dk www.f16simulator.com www.youfly.nu *YouTube VideoChannel* www.youtube.com/REZULTATdk www.youtube.com/F16SIMULATORcom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120201/8c60e2ef/attachment.html From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 2 04:06:11 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 04:06:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Feb 2012, Frank Riedel wrote: > Hi G. Congrats... please keep me informed for your release.... > What Beamers are you using ?? > Thanks Frank. I _think_ they're Epson 705HD projectors. I'm not a place to check at the moment. Wayne might know off the top of his head though. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From wledzian1 at comcast.net Thu Feb 2 07:41:07 2012 From: wledzian1 at comcast.net (Wayne Ledzian) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 07:41:07 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yep. Epson 705HD. Not the world's best projectors, but they do what we need and the price is right. From frank at rezultat.dk Thu Feb 2 07:43:10 2012 From: frank at rezultat.dk (Frank Riedel) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:43:10 +0100 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thx Wayne Did you guys play around with Prepar3D ?? 2012/2/2 Wayne Ledzian > > > Yep. Epson 705HD. > > Not the world's best projectors, but they do what we need and the price is > right. > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! > -- *Kindly Regards* *Rezultat* *Frank Riedel* Cell: +45 2424 4169 www.rezultat.dk www.f16simulator.com www.youfly.nu *YouTube VideoChannel* www.youtube.com/REZULTATdk www.youtube.com/F16SIMULATORcom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120202/05ebcb57/attachment.html From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 2 06:10:44 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 06:10:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Feb 2012, Frank Riedel wrote: > Thx Wayne > Did you guys play around with Prepar3D ?? > It's on the list. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Thu Feb 2 12:02:06 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:02:06 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> 1.2 rocks... :) SeanG > -----Original Message----- > From: simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech- > bounces at simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle > Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 3:11 a.m. > To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List > Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea > > On Thu, 2 Feb 2012, Frank Riedel wrote: > > > Thx Wayne > > Did you guys play around with Prepar3D ?? > > > It's on the list. :) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical > minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which > holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd > by the clean end. > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 2 10:08:09 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:08:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote: > 1.2 rocks... :) > It's my understanding that the 2.0 release of p3d is going to be DX10 compliant among other improvements. THAT's the build I wanna see. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Thu Feb 2 12:36:19 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 09:36:19 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Well the step up from 1.1* to 1.2* was huge.. so I imagine that the 2.* build should be awesome. We have a visit from one of the LM team soon... looking forward to that :) P3D + 3 x 1080p projectors + Sol7 + Curved Screen = :) SeanG > -----Original Message----- > From: simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech- > bounces at simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle > Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 7:08 a.m. > To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List > Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea > > On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote: > > > 1.2 rocks... :) > > > It's my understanding that the 2.0 release of p3d is going to be DX10 > compliant among other improvements. THAT's the build I wanna see. :) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical > minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which > holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd > by the clean end. > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 2 10:28:34 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 10:28:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote: > Well the step up from 1.1* to 1.2* was huge.. so I imagine that the 2.* > build should be awesome. We have a visit from one of the LM team > soon... looking forward to that :) > > P3D + 3 x 1080p projectors + Sol7 + Curved Screen = :) I'll have to shuffle along at 1280x800. Sol7 rocks though. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Thu Feb 2 13:07:58 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 10:07:58 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> > > P3D + 3 x 1080p projectors + Sol7 + Curved Screen = :) > > I'll have to shuffle along at 1280x800. Sol7 rocks though. :) [Smug_Look] Can't beat 5760*1080 res ;-) But yes, Sol7 does rock.. Hate to think how many copies I've bought and installed now... they must love me! SeanG From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 2 11:24:28 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:24:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote: >>> P3D + 3 x 1080p projectors + Sol7 + Curved Screen = :) >> >> I'll have to shuffle along at 1280x800. Sol7 rocks though. :) > > [Smug_Look] Can't beat 5760*1080 res ;-) But yes, Sol7 does rock.. > Hate to think how many copies I've bought and installed now... they must > love me! > I just bet. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Thu Feb 2 13:52:12 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 10:52:12 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C7@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> > > > I just bet. :) > Just got to add "Gene's cross-cockpit collimated visuals" to the mix and I'll be in sim heaven ;-) SeanG From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 2 11:48:13 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 11:48:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C7@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C7@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote: >>> >> I just bet. :) >> > > Just got to add "Gene's cross-cockpit collimated visuals" to the mix and > I'll be in sim heaven ;-) I'll trade you a flight deck for one. *laughs* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Thu Feb 2 14:11:21 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 11:11:21 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C7@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7CA@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Lol... I'll have a talk to the boss and .... ... nope, that didn't work! Actually I need to share a pic of the "Test rig"... which shall be known as "Bill".. made out of all the old parts I have hoarded over the years. On the up side it's running P3D and 3x HD ;-) SeanG > -----Original Message----- > From: simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech- > bounces at simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle > Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 8:48 a.m. > To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List > Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea > > On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote: > > >>> > >> I just bet. :) > >> > > > > Just got to add "Gene's cross-cockpit collimated visuals" to the mix and > > I'll be in sim heaven ;-) > > I'll trade you a flight deck for one. *laughs* > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical > minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which > holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd > by the clean end. > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Thu Feb 2 14:43:20 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 11:43:20 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7CA@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> References: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7BF@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C3@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C4@PS-CH1.pacsim.local><2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7C7@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7CA@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F7CD@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> > Actually I need to share a pic of the "Test rig"... which shall be known > as "Bill".. made out of all the old parts I have hoarded over the years. > On the up side it's running P3D and 3x HD ;-) https://picasaweb.google.com/105438633208710432512/ScrapbookPhotos For your Friday morning entertainment.... You in the back, stop giggling! SeanG From frank at rezultat.dk Thu Feb 2 17:08:43 2012 From: frank at rezultat.dk (Frank Riedel) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 02:08:43 +0100 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thx Wayne Den 02/02/2012 16.41 skrev "Wayne Ledzian" : > > > Yep. Epson 705HD. > > Not the world's best projectors, but they do what we need and the price is > right. > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120203/6e4f582c/attachment-0001.html From dabigboy at cox.net Thu Feb 2 19:05:16 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 19:05:16 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120202220516.7KL11.177258.imail@fed1rmwml303> ---- Gene Buckle wrote: > On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > > Similarly, for people with cylindrical screens, a cylindrical mirror > > could be used (I think?) whose angle is equal to the angle of the main > > screen. > > > If they're using a fold mirror, then yes. There's a guy out there that' > built a Jet Ranger sim from a written off airframe and he uses a curved > fold mirror against a curved display screen. It's pretty slick. D'oh, I meant to say "cylindrical lens". Ergo, something that would distort the image evenly in only one plane, so that it could be properly front-projected onto a cylindrical screen. But you are talking about bouncing the projected image off a curved mirror which then projects onto the screen, no? Now I have to go google "fold mirrors"! :) Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Thu Feb 2 23:03:11 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 23:03:11 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] PFC yoke conversion Message-ID: <20120203020312.UPIAC.335704.imail@eastrmwml214> Just thought I would pass on one of the more interesting additions to my simulator. I scored myself a Jeppesen/PFC yoke on ebay for cheap (under $90 shipped.....something about "a bit of rust" and "unable to test" just scares other bidders away, hehehe!). It even included the avionics panel (!) which I really don't have any use for, though I may scavenge the rotary encoders out of it. This unit was sold as part of Jeppesen's IFR training package back in the late 1990's, but is actually the standard PFC Mooney-styled yoke which is still being sold today. It even has a PFC serial # and data sticker on it. Upon opening the unit, I found there was actually no circuitry inside, all the buttons and axis were wired directly to a 15-pin gameport-style connector....PERFECT! :) My plan was to mount the yoke behind my sim and extend the shaft. I was dismayed to find that the lovely solid aluminum PFC yoke is apparently glued/spot-welded onto the yoke shaft. I couldn't get it off, at least not without potentially damaging something else. But as it happens, I have a *better* yoke anyway, and the little hollow spot in the center of the PFC yoke just happened to be about the right size for the large yoke shaft I'd already come up with a while back. Soooo.....after getting over the idea of taking a grinder to a $500+ professional yoke, I cut off the yoke arms and mounted my extended shaft with my fancy yoke on the end: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810610585/in/photostream You `can also see the lovely engineering in this unit.....simply beautiful! I almost hate to put the cover back on. :) I started construction on the wooden frame that will eventually mount the sim to a full enclosure...for now it just provides stability and a place to mount the PFC yoke. Here is a side view so you can see how it all goes together: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810610549/in/photostream And here's the yoke outside of the sim, during test-fitting of the shaft extension....don't worry, the big ugly screw sticking out the top was temporary to hold the shaft in place: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810658719/ Finally, the finished product: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810610521/ The feel is EXCELLENT. There is enough force from the big springs that I worry about pulling the sim off the table during aggressive maneuvers (and it's quite heavy). I suppose it's about as good a yoke as you can get without going to something with active hydraulics. This is something I have been putting off for a while, but the sim had become essentially unflyable with my old homebrew yoke system. Not as much "fun" to work out as some of the more "cool" things (like converting the analog Gables nav/com head to talk to a Phidget....) but since the yoke is probably the one thing you use the most in flight, I felt it was pretty critical to get it right. And right it is! I had to run a couple new wires to connect the ground terminals of the pots, but since I won't be needing the PFC's connector for yoke buttons (they exit the yoke shaft further inside the sim), I had plenty of wires to spare for that. I am using Leo Bodnar's BU0386 to interface to the main PC, and the yoke performs flawlessly with that....full range, no perceivable jitter, nice linear output. Next up: finishing the Gables analog nav/com conversion, and looking into those spherical mirrors that Gene has got me thinking about now...hummmmm! Matt From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Fri Feb 3 10:37:52 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 12:37:52 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] PFC yoke conversion In-Reply-To: <20120203020312.UPIAC.335704.imail@eastrmwml214> References: <20120203020312.UPIAC.335704.imail@eastrmwml214> Message-ID: <4F2C2980.803@gmail.com> On 2/3/2012 1:03 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Just thought I would pass on one of the more interesting additions to my simulator. I scored myself a Jeppesen/PFC yoke on ebay for cheap (under $90 shipped.....something about "a bit of rust" and "unable to test" just scares other bidders away, hehehe!). It even included the avionics panel (!) which I really don't have any use for, though I may scavenge the rotary encoders out of it. > > This unit was sold as part of Jeppesen's IFR training package back in the late 1990's, but is actually the standard PFC Mooney-styled yoke which is still being sold today. It even has a PFC serial # and data sticker on it. Upon opening the unit, I found there was actually no circuitry inside, all the buttons and axis were wired directly to a 15-pin gameport-style connector....PERFECT! :) > > My plan was to mount the yoke behind my sim and extend the shaft. I was dismayed to find that the lovely solid aluminum PFC yoke is apparently glued/spot-welded onto the yoke shaft. I couldn't get it off, at least not without potentially damaging something else. But as it happens, I have a *better* yoke anyway, and the little hollow spot in the center of the PFC yoke just happened to be about the right size for the large yoke shaft I'd already come up with a while back. > > Soooo.....after getting over the idea of taking a grinder to a $500+ professional yoke, I cut off the yoke arms and mounted my extended shaft with my fancy yoke on the end: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810610585/in/photostream > > You `can also see the lovely engineering in this unit.....simply beautiful! I almost hate to put the cover back on. :) I started construction on the wooden frame that will eventually mount the sim to a full enclosure...for now it just provides stability and a place to mount the PFC yoke. > > Here is a side view so you can see how it all goes together: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810610549/in/photostream > > And here's the yoke outside of the sim, during test-fitting of the shaft extension....don't worry, the big ugly screw sticking out the top was temporary to hold the shaft in place: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810658719/ > > Finally, the finished product: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/alfamatt/6810610521/ > > The feel is EXCELLENT. There is enough force from the big springs that I worry about pulling the sim off the table during aggressive maneuvers (and it's quite heavy). I suppose it's about as good a yoke as you can get without going to something with active hydraulics. This is something I have been putting off for a while, but the sim had become essentially unflyable with my old homebrew yoke system. Not as much "fun" to work out as some of the more "cool" things (like converting the analog Gables nav/com head to talk to a Phidget....) but since the yoke is probably the one thing you use the most in flight, I felt it was pretty critical to get it right. And right it is! I had to run a couple new wires to connect the ground terminals of the pots, but since I won't be needing the PFC's connector for yoke buttons (they exit the yoke shaft further inside the sim), I had plenty of wires to spare for that. I am using Leo Bodnar's BU0386 to interface to the main PC, and the yoke perf > orms flawlessly with that....full range, no perceivable jitter, nice linear output. > > Next up: finishing the Gables analog nav/com conversion, and looking into those spherical mirrors that Gene has got me thinking about now...hummmmm! > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > to bad to go though all that work... never guess what I have in surplus.... brand new, never been used, just a little dusty.. 2 Cessna Control Wheel # 0513239-9 goto http://www.phoenixcomm.net/~phnx2000/sim/catalog/index.shtml and click on "Flight Controls" and look at top picture... no switches, just great yoke for GA sim... just show me the money... :) Cris H phoenixcomm.wordpress.com phoenixaerospace.us flite-tronics.com From roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk Fri Feb 3 15:24:27 2012 From: roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk (Roy Coates) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 23:24:27 +0000 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: <20120202220516.7KL11.177258.imail@fed1rmwml303> References: <20120202220516.7KL11.177258.imail@fed1rmwml303> Message-ID: On 3 February 2012 03:05, wrote: > > D'oh, I meant to say "cylindrical lens". Ergo, something that would > distort the image evenly in only one plane, so that it could be properly > front-projected onto a cylindrical screen. But you are talking about > bouncing the projected image off a curved mirror which then projects onto > the screen, no? Now I have to go google "fold mirrors"! :) > You've got me thinking now. I'm sure the projectors in our main sim have lenses mounted in front of them. Three projectors that display onto the inside of a spherical chamber. Will take camera ... Roy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120203/57006953/attachment.html From dabigboy at cox.net Fri Feb 3 21:00:16 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2012 21:00:16 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120204000016.9VJPQ.357737.imail@eastrmwml206> ---- Roy Coates wrote: > On 3 February 2012 03:05, wrote: > > > > > D'oh, I meant to say "cylindrical lens". Ergo, something that would > > distort the image evenly in only one plane, so that it could be properly > > front-projected onto a cylindrical screen. But you are talking about > > bouncing the projected image off a curved mirror which then projects onto > > the screen, no? Now I have to go google "fold mirrors"! :) > > > > You've got me thinking now. I'm sure the projectors in our main sim have > lenses mounted in front of them. Three projectors that display onto the > inside of a spherical chamber. > > Will take camera ... > > Roy. Hehe! I would love to see the results of your experiments! Ran across a goldmine of info on this subject: http://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/ One of the ideas offered here (and in fact, something the author has done many times, it appears) is using a spherical "safety mirror" (the ones typically mounted on ceilings and such, so that you can see around the corners or behind you, for instance) to bounce the projected image onto a spherical screen. The author indicates that warping software is still required, though........which leaves me to believe the only real advantage of the mirror is that it expands the FOV of the projector without losing so much focus and brightness (since the projector can be much closer to the screen, essentially). It may also reduce the amount of correction needed, but the author doesn't mention this. I wonder if a fisheye lens would be the same story. or would it work without warping software? At any rate, I just found out that the Fly Elise people have some cheap warping software: http://fly.elise-ng.net/ One product is even X-Plane-centric....it's a display designer which comes with an X-Plane plugin. You "design" your display in the software, and it spits out a config file for the X-Plane plugin which properly warps the graphics via an OpenGL matrix that is injected into the sim via the plugin SDK. Using an XP plugin actually occurred to me the other day, but I'm afraid my math skills are not up to the task. One thing that particularly excited me was the screenshot of the cylindrical screen with a spherical mirror......while I'm dubious about my ability to make a good spherical screen, I think I could handle a nice cylindrical one, and the safety mirrors are cheap and plentiful. Then all I would need is three good projectors (ok, there goes the budget), and $65 for the screen designer app......hmmmm! :) Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Sun Feb 5 23:26:34 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 23:26:34 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Projector screen material? Message-ID: <20120206022634.P23SX.377516.imail@eastrmwml206> Hey guys, I just scored myself not one, but two projectors on ebay.........so it looks like the visual system experiments are about to begin. :) I have decided I want to pursue a cylindrical screen, and use Fly-Elise's X-Plane plugin to correct the geometry. I *think* if I utilize a spherical mirror, I can mostly overcome the focusing issues. What I'm wondering about now is how to make the screen..........I guess my first question is, what's good material (or paint) for a DLP projector? I haven't decided if I'm going to drape material into a cylinder, or make a hard cylinder and paint it. I'm less concerned about brightness and more concerned about good colors and dark blacks. Second question: any ideas on how to go about this? :) I was thinking if I could find some relatively ridgid (maybe PVC or some other sort of plastic) material, I could put maybe half a dozen vertical beams where I want the screen, and let the curve of the plastic do the rest. Or, I could make two half-circle metal hangars to mount on the top and bottom of some sort of projection cloth (not as crazy about this idea, as it might move around with air flow). For now I'm just going to experiment with one projector....other one is going in the living room, per my wife's request. :) So I will only be using 60* or so FOV. But I will go ahead and build at least a 180* screen, and prepare for 3 or more projectors total. If all else fails, I will resort to three flat projection screens around the cockpit. I'm sure the effect will still be very awesome, but I sure want to try the cylindrical idea first. Matt From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 6 06:40:12 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 06:40:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Projector screen material? In-Reply-To: <20120206022634.P23SX.377516.imail@eastrmwml206> References: <20120206022634.P23SX.377516.imail@eastrmwml206> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Hey guys, I just scored myself not one, but two projectors on > ebay.........so it looks like the visual system experiments are about to > begin. :) > Welcome to the dark side! :) > I have decided I want to pursue a cylindrical screen, and use > Fly-Elise's X-Plane plugin to correct the geometry. I *think* if I > utilize a spherical mirror, I can mostly overcome the focusing issues. > What I'm wondering about now is how to make the screen..........I guess > my first question is, what's good material (or paint) for a DLP > projector? I haven't decided if I'm going to drape material into a > cylinder, or make a hard cylinder and paint it. I'm less concerned about > brightness and more concerned about good colors and dark blacks. > I've used Behr Silver Screen paint. It works nicely. You can buy it at Home Despot. I'd like to hear how well that Fly-Elise software works. > Second question: any ideas on how to go about this? :) I was thinking if > I could find some relatively ridgid (maybe PVC or some other sort of > plastic) material, I could put maybe half a dozen vertical beams where I > want the screen, and let the curve of the plastic do the rest. Or, I > could make two half-circle metal hangars to mount on the top and bottom > of some sort of projection cloth (not as crazy about this idea, as it > might move around with air flow). > I would try using some 1/8" hardboard as a projection surface. It curves easily. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 11 23:50:18 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 23:50:18 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Projector stuff Message-ID: <20120212025018.GJ881.466580.imail@eastrmwml106> So I got a chance to hook my "new" (to me) DLP projector up to my sim this week.....AWESOME! What a huge upgrade, even from my dearly departed 37" LCD monitor (far better, in fact). It's a Mitsubishi XD460U...native res is only 1024x768, although it will do 1280x768 if it's widescreen you seek. So it's not a barn-burner, but it does ostensibly pump out 2600 lumens and a 2000:1 contrast ratio. As long as I am content with these specs, it looks like I can ebay more projectors for well under $200 all day (in fact, I also got a working 430U for $58...). My biggest concern is the throw distance. I'm not sure how well this projector will work with my planned cylindrical screen, I may have to seek short-throw projectors specifically. We shall see soon enough....I am ready to build it now that I'm sold on the DLP projector. I am convinced now that a 180* wrap-around screen will put the pilot safely over the "suspension of disbelief" threshold. :) Something happens in a big sim with big visuals....at Flight Safety, even with the motion turned off, the visual system clicks something in your head, and your brain says "yep, you are moving".....I can just begin to see that with the projector when the screen is big and the geometry is set up reasonably correctly. Even just beaming onto a flat wall with just one projector, I am now REALLY able to sit down and enjoy the sim...up until now I've been stuck with a 20" monitor sitting on the glareshield that wobbled every time I move the yoke. No comparison!!! Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Sun Feb 12 15:46:27 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:46:27 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Frustration! Message-ID: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> Grrr....well I just found out the Fly Elise software I was going to use for my sim is Windows-only.....the screen warping software. Thus far that has been the case with all packages I've found. My sim is 100% Linux at this point, right down to my instrument panel display computers. I thought about caving in and running Windows XP on my visual computers, but.....I just can't bring myself to run a piece of crap operating system on my project. If it were 10 years ago and I didn't know any better, I would probably just use Windows and be fine. But now that I've seen how an operating system is SUPPOSED to work, it's like going back to a 1990's Ford after driving a new Ferrari around for a while. Windows is slow, it's glitchy, it crashes, it gets in the way (especially when developing and prototyping sim stuff), it feels clunky, it leaks memory like the SR-71 leaks fuel, NTFS breaks itself as a matter of routine, the interface STILL looks like something from Fisher Price......I just can't do it. You know Windows doesn't even have a way to intelligently enumerate USB devices in any sane order? That means what is button 12 right now might not be button 12 next time you reboot, because Windows is SOMETIMES random in how it enumerates USB stuff. Plus, if you need to connect/disconnect a USB joystick controller, when you plug it back in OR just happen to not use the same USB port, it will get a new ID, throwing the button assignments into chaos once again. In Linux we can write udev rules so that the virtual device (or other attributes) of the USB device remains fixed based on serial number, vendor, model number, or a host of other USB metadata, REGARDLESS of what order the devices are plugged in or which port is used. We can even do fun things like automatically mount a specific USB storage device to a specific mount point, or even run scripts and programs when a device is plugged in. Every time I see a Windows computer with labels on the USB ports, I just shake my head a little (the same feeling I get when I plug a USB mouse into a different port in a Windows machine and it has to "find" the drivers and "install" the mouse again). Windows has single-handedly defeated one of the chief selling points of USB technology in the first place. Ahhhh....enough venting for now. If Fly Elise doesn't let me help them port their plugin, I guess my only option will be to go hit the OpenGL docs heavy and write the darn plugin myself. Matt From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Feb 12 16:41:16 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:41:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Frustration! In-Reply-To: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> References: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Grrr....well I just found out the Fly Elise software I was going to use > for my sim is Windows-only.....the screen warping software. Thus far Just FYI, FlightGear has built-in support for projecting on curved screen. The author will be working on making it deform to spherical section screens soon. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From dabigboy at cox.net Sun Feb 12 20:28:25 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:28:25 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Frustration! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120212232825.0REMR.286745.imail@fed1rmwml207> You mean Curt? Wow that's good to know....I still can't quite get into FlightGear, but I bet I could use the curved screen code for my plugin. Thanks for the tip! Matt ---- Gene Buckle wrote: > On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > > Grrr....well I just found out the Fly Elise software I was going to use > > for my sim is Windows-only.....the screen warping software. Thus far > > Just FYI, FlightGear has built-in support for projecting on curved screen. > The author will be working on making it deform to spherical section > screens soon. > > g. > > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a > server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. > [Cipher in a.s.r] > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Mon Feb 13 04:49:23 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 06:49:23 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Frustration! In-Reply-To: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> References: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> Message-ID: <4F3906D3.3050700@gmail.com> On 2/12/2012 5:46 PM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Grrr....well I just found out the Fly Elise software I was going to use for my sim is Windows-only.....the screen warping software. Thus far that has been the case with all packages I've found. My sim is 100% Linux at this point, right down to my instrument panel display computers. I thought about caving in and running Windows XP on my visual computers, but.....I just can't bring myself to run a piece of crap operating system on my project. > > If it were 10 years ago and I didn't know any better, I would probably just use Windows and be fine. But now that I've seen how an operating system is SUPPOSED to work, it's like going back to a 1990's Ford after driving a new Ferrari around for a while. Windows is slow, it's glitchy, it crashes, it gets in the way (especially when developing and prototyping sim stuff), it feels clunky, it leaks memory like the SR-71 leaks fuel, NTFS breaks itself as a matter of routine, the interface STILL looks like something from Fisher Price......I just can't do it. > > You know Windows doesn't even have a way to intelligently enumerate USB devices in any sane order? That means what is button 12 right now might not be button 12 next time you reboot, because Windows is SOMETIMES random in how it enumerates USB stuff. Plus, if you need to connect/disconnect a USB joystick controller, when you plug it back in OR just happen to not use the same USB port, it will get a new ID, throwing the button assignments into chaos once again. In Linux we can write udev rules so that the virtual device (or other attributes) of the USB device remains fixed based on serial number, vendor, model number, or a host of other USB metadata, REGARDLESS of what order the devices are plugged in or which port is used. We can even do fun things like automatically mount a specific USB storage device to a specific mount point, or even run scripts and programs when a device is plugged in. > > Every time I see a Windows computer with labels on the USB ports, I just shake my head a little (the same feeling I get when I plug a USB mouse into a different port in a Windows machine and it has to "find" the drivers and "install" the mouse again). Windows has single-handedly defeated one of the chief selling points of USB technology in the first place. > > Ahhhh....enough venting for now. If Fly Elise doesn't let me help them port their plugin, I guess my only option will be to go hit the OpenGL docs heavy and write the darn plugin myself. > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > Relax, take a deep breath.. Windows is a virus.. and its spreading.... I know as I have been living with Solaris on SPARC boxes for years as my development system for years! In early 90's I started a hosting company .. with a SPARCserver 690 chassis & 4 1.6gb drives.. and I thought it was the shit!!! Cris H. phoenixcomm.wordpress.com phoenixcomm.net phoenixaerospace.us flite-tronics.com From fsim at rwaltman.com Mon Feb 13 08:12:55 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:12:55 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> References: <20120212184627.FG3E8.289232.imail@fed1rmwml303> Message-ID: <4F393687.8090202@rwaltman.com> dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ... I guess my only option will be to go hit the OpenGL docs heavy and write the darn plugin myself. > I would be interested in collaborating on this effort. -- Roberto Waltman From dabigboy at cox.net Mon Feb 13 10:30:24 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:30:24 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F393687.8090202@rwaltman.com> Message-ID: <20120213133025.3K91W.293427.imail@fed1rmwml207> Cool, what's your specialty? I'm fairly comfortable with OpenGL, decent on trig, but very weak on calculus. I don't know if I will need calculus stuff for this yet, but I suspect so. Matt ---- Roberto Waltman wrote: > dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > ... I guess my only option will be to go hit the OpenGL docs heavy and write the darn plugin myself. > > > > I would be interested in collaborating on this effort. > > -- > Roberto Waltman > > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Feb 13 07:57:24 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:57:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120213133025.3K91W.293427.imail@fed1rmwml207> References: <20120213133025.3K91W.293427.imail@fed1rmwml207> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Cool, what's your specialty? I'm fairly comfortable with OpenGL, decent on trig, but very weak on calculus. I don't know if I will need calculus stuff for this yet, but I suspect so. > Matt, if you're running Linux end-to-end, what sim software are you using? g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From fsim at rwaltman.com Mon Feb 13 12:14:30 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:14:30 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120213133025.3K91W.293427.imail@fed1rmwml207> References: <20120213133025.3K91W.293427.imail@fed1rmwml207> Message-ID: <4F396F26.6080806@rwaltman.com> Specialty? Jack of many trades and master of a few of them. 20+ years on embedded systems software. Used to be very good at math, but that was many moons ago. (And it is true that if you don't use it you lose it.) Basic OpenGL knowledge. "Visualizing Quaternions" book on my night table, untouched ... Pilot in real life, (although rusty,) gliders + SEL. Interested on flight simulators as projects that bring together many of my interests (math, electronics, physics, software, aviation; piano doesn't fit in a '152,) and as training tools. *Not* interested in flight simulators as games, in particular, extremely not interested in multi-player flight simulation. Mainly run (past tense) X-plane on Linux, with rare detours to Flightgear. Had for a short while a 3-computer 3-monitor setup, disassembled during a major basement cleanup. Slowly putting back something I hope will look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXts91RQzW8 Planning a similar 5-monitor layout, with 5 diskless computers (one per monitor) + a sixth for instruments and a file server to feed them all. Have most of the hardware, but very little time to work on it. I just ordered X-Plane 10, maybe it will reignite the fire ... Roberto Waltman PS: Probably (much) more geometry/trigonometry than calculus. dabigboy at cox.net wrote: Cool, what's your specialty? I'm fairly comfortable with OpenGL, decent on trig, but very weak on calculus. I don't know if I will need calculus stuff for this yet, but I suspect so. Matt From roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk Mon Feb 13 16:41:11 2012 From: roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk (Roy Coates) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:41:11 +0000 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <22464_1329164123_4F396F5B_22464_5642_1_4F396F26.6080806@rwaltman.com> References: <20120213133025.3K91W.293427.imail@fed1rmwml207> <22464_1329164123_4F396F5B_22464_5642_1_4F396F26.6080806@rwaltman.com> Message-ID: On 13 February 2012 20:14, Roberto Waltman wrote: > Slowly putting back something I hope will look like this: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXts91RQzW8 > Hey, that's our Bob's setup down in Bristol. He's a really nice guy, IRL Pilot (share in a traumahawk) and he has a completely unbridled passion for sims which is rather handy since that's how he makes his living running rc-simulations.com He'd be pleased to know someone likes his setup. Roy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120214/874e14e0/attachment.html From dabigboy at cox.net Mon Feb 13 20:07:40 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:07:40 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120213230740.DWFCI.302735.imail@fed1rmwml113> X-Plane, of course. :) The Linux build has become very mature....heck, Austin develops on OSX on a Mac, which is much closer to Linux than to Windows anyway. X-Plane runs flawlessly on Linux now, and performance is wonderful. For instruments and driving Phidgets etc I'm using software I wrote myself in Python + OpenGL. Incidentally, I've just dived into my instrument software again as of last night....I am writing weather radar software which will grab the radar image from X-Plane to reflect the actual weather patterns, while also offering more features (like adjustable range) and a realistic "sweep" pattern instead of the fanciful real-time weather display which X-Plane has had for years. :) Last night I got the sweeper display working. Plan is to cannibalize an old broken radar display unit out of a real plane and use its buttons/knobs etc with a PS2 LCD inside it to render weather. Matt ---- Gene Buckle wrote: > On Mon, 13 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > > Cool, what's your specialty? I'm fairly comfortable with OpenGL, decent on trig, but very weak on calculus. I don't know if I will need calculus stuff for this yet, but I suspect so. > > > Matt, if you're running Linux end-to-end, what sim software are you using? > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a > server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. > [Cipher in a.s.r] > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! From dabigboy at cox.net Mon Feb 13 20:16:06 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 20:16:06 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F396F26.6080806@rwaltman.com> Message-ID: <20120213231606.OJJ5A.302841.imail@fed1rmwml113> Cool, sounds like you've had some interesting experiences. Do you still fly? I'm a pilot as well, I find the ever-increasing price of flying somewhat prohibitive, but I do make a point to take up a plane or two every couple months or so if I can. Well if you worked on embedded systems I would guess you have some good software skills.......I will let you know if I go ahead with the screen warping plugin. I *could* always just go with 3 flat projector screens, but I've seen those in videos and I know how it would look, I just don't think I'd like it very much. A spherical would be the best of course, but I believe a cylindrical screen is a good compromise. Matt ---- Roberto Waltman wrote: > Specialty? Jack of many trades and master of a few of them. > 20+ years on embedded systems software. Used to be very good at math, > but that was many moons ago. > (And it is true that if you don't use it you lose it.) > Basic OpenGL knowledge. "Visualizing Quaternions" book on my night > table, untouched ... > Pilot in real life, (although rusty,) gliders + SEL. > Interested on flight simulators as projects that bring together many of > my interests (math, electronics, physics, software, aviation; piano > doesn't fit in a '152,) and as training tools. *Not* interested in > flight simulators as games, in particular, extremely not interested in > multi-player flight simulation. > Mainly run (past tense) X-plane on Linux, with rare detours to Flightgear. > Had for a short while a 3-computer 3-monitor setup, disassembled during > a major basement cleanup. > Slowly putting back something I hope will look like this: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXts91RQzW8 > Planning a similar 5-monitor layout, with 5 diskless computers (one per > monitor) + a sixth for instruments and a file server to feed them all. > Have most of the hardware, but very little time to work on it. > I just ordered X-Plane 10, maybe it will reignite the fire ... > > Roberto Waltman > > > PS: Probably (much) more geometry/trigonometry than calculus. > > > > dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > Cool, what's your specialty? I'm fairly comfortable with OpenGL, decent > on trig, but very weak on calculus. I don't know if I will need calculus > stuff for this yet, but I suspect so. > > Matt > > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! From fsim at rwaltman.com Tue Feb 14 07:53:23 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:53:23 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120213230740.DWFCI.302735.imail@fed1rmwml113> References: <20120213230740.DWFCI.302735.imail@fed1rmwml113> Message-ID: <4F3A8373.5070708@rwaltman.com> dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ... Plan is to cannibalize an old broken radar display unit out of a real plane and use its buttons/knobs etc with a PS2 LCD inside it to render weather. I got a few used Mio Moov-200 GPS for simulated instruments. Squarish, blackish, they may look as aircraft instruments when squinting from a distance. No buttons, but they do have a touch screen. They run Windows CE 5 and can run programs from the built-in card reader instead of the GPS app. The CPU is a well documented Samsung S3C2443, so it may be possible to install a different OS if enough time and energy is wast^H^H^H^H spent on this. -- Roberto Waltman From dabigboy at cox.net Tue Feb 14 22:20:24 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:20:24 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F3A8373.5070708@rwaltman.com> Message-ID: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> ---- Roberto Waltman wrote: > dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > ... Plan is to cannibalize an old broken radar display unit out of a real plane and use its buttons/knobs etc with a PS2 LCD inside it to render weather. > > I got a few used Mio Moov-200 GPS for simulated instruments. > Squarish, blackish, they may look as aircraft instruments when squinting > from a distance. > No buttons, but they do have a touch screen. > They run Windows CE 5 and can run programs from the built-in card reader > instead of the GPS app. > The CPU is a well documented Samsung S3C2443, so it may be possible to > install a different OS if enough time and energy is wast^H^H^H^H spent > on this. Nice! It appears to be a little less than 3.5" and square, which is almost perfect for single glass instruments (HSI, attitude indicator, etc). I am reaching a point where I can make so many real gauges, I don't have room to fit my 15" monitor behind the instrument panel anymore. This might be a solution......I will still try to scrounge up an old radar though. I want it to look/be real...IOW, I want someone to be able to look right at the radar bezel and buttons, touch it and use it, and not be able to tell the difference between mine and a real one. :) Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Tue Feb 14 23:03:17 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:03:17 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] TomTom for simpits? Message-ID: <20120215020317.CU64W.325041.imail@fed1rmwml205> Alright, so Roberto's suggestion about the Mio GPS got me poking around......it turns out the TomTom family of GPS devices not only runs Linux on an ARM processor, but it seems that after TomTom was accused of using GPL'd code in a proprietary operation system, TomTom completely open-sourced the whole thing. Now there is an entire community and project built up around hackerizing TomToms to run custom Linux builds and random Linux apps..........just wondering if anyone has explored this? I'm assuming my silky-smooth OpenGL instruments would be out, but I bet I could get something going with SDL to at least display frequencies or other semi-static data. Heck, the devices are going for under $40 on ebay, even if you dumped the device itself and just hooked the 3.5" LCD into an Arduino it would be worth it. Matt From fsim at rwaltman.com Wed Feb 15 04:25:25 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:25:25 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> References: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> Message-ID: <4F3BA435.8070107@rwaltman.com> >> ... Mio Moov-200 GPS for simulated instruments. > Nice! It appears to be a little less than 3.5" > and square, which is almost perfect for single > glass instruments (HSI, attitude indicator, etc). My thoughts precisely. (But they are clearly on the "rectangular" wagon, not square) From fsim at rwaltman.com Wed Feb 15 04:40:26 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:40:26 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] TomTom for simpits? In-Reply-To: <20120215020317.CU64W.325041.imail@fed1rmwml205> References: <20120215020317.CU64W.325041.imail@fed1rmwml205> Message-ID: <4F3BA7BA.9030305@rwaltman.com> dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ... the TomTom family of GPS devices not only > runs Linux on an ARM processor > ...TomTom completely open-sourced the whole thing > Now there is an entire community and project built > up around hackerizing TomToms to run custom Linux > builds and random Linux apps > just wondering if anyone has explored this? Thanks for the pointer, I looked at TomToms before but wasn't aware of the Linux connection. That could make life much easier. When I choosed the Mios I was paying attention to the enclosure design. Screen not recessed, straight lines, can be stacked or put side by side without "dead space", etc. > I'm assuming my silky-smooth OpenGL instruments > would be out, but I bet I could get something going > with SDL to at least display frequencies or other > semi-static data. Heck, the devices are going for > under $40 on ebay, even if you dumped the device > itself and just hooked the 3.5" LCD into an Arduino > it would be worth it. Better to use the whole thing. (May be sans enclosure.) You get the video drivers working, power regulation, USB port for comms, etc. (And a working GPS if you get lost between the sim and the kitchen fridge!) -- Roberto Waltman From fsim at rwaltman.com Wed Feb 15 04:53:25 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:53:25 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] TomTom for simpits? In-Reply-To: <20120215020317.CU64W.325041.imail@fed1rmwml205> References: <20120215020317.CU64W.325041.imail@fed1rmwml205> Message-ID: <4F3BAAC5.5000502@rwaltman.com> dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > I'm assuming my silky-smooth OpenGL instruments would be out, As a GPS, they display moving maps in real time. I don't think a silky-smooth, non-OpenGl altimeter or attitude indicator would be too challenging. -- Roberto Waltman From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 17 17:07:30 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:07:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120213230740.DWFCI.302735.imail@fed1rmwml113> References: <20120213230740.DWFCI.302735.imail@fed1rmwml113> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > X-Plane, of course. :) The Linux build has become very mature....heck, Austin develops on OSX on a Mac, which is much closer to Linux than to Windows anyway. X-Plane runs flawlessly on Linux now, and performance is wonderful. > > For instruments and driving Phidgets etc I'm using software I wrote > myself in Python + OpenGL. Incidentally, I've just dived into my > instrument software again as of last night....I am writing weather radar > software which will grab the radar image from X-Plane to reflect the > actual weather patterns, while also offering more features (like > adjustable range) and a realistic "sweep" pattern instead of the > fanciful real-time weather display which X-Plane has had for years. :) > Last night I got the sweeper display working. Plan is to cannibalize an > old broken radar display unit out of a real plane and use its > buttons/knobs etc with a PS2 LCD inside it to render weather. I'd like to see that code some time. I've got a box full of Phidgets that I haven't done anything with. The only hang-up I have with XP is you need to use three instances to get three projectors worth of accurate output. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Feb 17 17:24:16 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 17:24:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> References: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > Nice! It appears to be a little less than 3.5" and square, which is > almost perfect for single glass instruments (HSI, attitude indicator, > etc). I am reaching a point where I can make so many real gauges, I > don't have room to fit my 15" monitor behind the instrument panel > anymore. This might be a solution......I will still try to scrounge up > an old radar though. I want it to look/be real...IOW, I want someone to > be able to look right at the radar bezel and buttons, touch it and use > it, and not be able to tell the difference between mine and a real one. > :) You guys should check out the Raspberry Pi. IT's a full-featured GP computer for $35. http://www.raspberrypi.org g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From brian at sikkema.us Fri Feb 17 21:29:07 2012 From: brian at sikkema.us (Brian Sikkema) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:29:07 +0900 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: References: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> Message-ID: <4F3F3723.5050402@sikkema.us> > You guys should check out the Raspberry Pi. IT's a full-featured GP > computer for $35. http://www.raspberrypi.org > > g. > Very interesting! Brian From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 18 00:31:20 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 0:31:20 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120218033120.TS88R.361605.imail@fed1rmwml304> ---- Gene Buckle wrote: > > I'd like to see that code some time. I've got a box full of Phidgets that > I haven't done anything with. Sure thing. I need to clean it up a bit, and add/fix some comments. Incidentally, it's all in Python at the moment, using the Python Phidgets wrapper, but is basically identical to the C++ calls, excepting the typical language-specific conventions of course. I may even move it over to C++, we'll see.....I finally got my feet wet with C++ last year, thinking "hey, now I can do everything there instead"....but honestly, I still find Python just a lot more fun to code in. And since any speed issues are simply not a factor on any of my software thus far, even the OpenGL stuff (and I'm running it on an old Athlon XP....), I will probably only port it to C++ if I decide to publicly release it (which is something of a goal, eventually). Incidentally, I got the radar working the other night.....it properly updates from X-Plane (on the same PC or a network PC as well), while giving a very convincing "sweep", exactly like a real radar. Now I can do the interface design, overlays, legends, input handling, etc...it's all fun stuff from here. :) > The only hang-up I have with XP is you need to use three instances to get > three projectors worth of accurate output. I do seem to recall some funny distortions in the side views at extreme FOVs, is that what you're referring to? Honestly I'm not going with more than one display per PC anyway...especially as cheap as PCs are nowadays, I feel like running one display per machine is the least I can do to help frame rates. I have old Core 2 Duo and AM2+ PCs right now with 7000 to 9000 series NVidia cards, and on my 1024x768 machines they run silky smooth at moderate settings with XP9. But if I had killer PCs, I would still run one display per PC, and just crank up the graphics. :) As far as the software cost....since I'm running Linux, all I have to do is create an image of the DVD and mount is as a loopback device. My main sim PC doesn't even have a DVD drive. Not sure how this works from a licensing perspective....I suppose for a small home setup it doesn't violate anything. You can do this with Windows too, but it requires third-party software and is a bit kludgy.....but then that's the case with most of the actually useful stuff you want to do in Windows anyway. :) Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 18 00:35:23 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 0:35:23 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120218033523.OB1II.361609.imail@fed1rmwml304> Oh my goodness! That is extremely cool...heck I could stick one of these in each radio if I needed to, and make my radios stand-alone PCs....crazy! And cheap, AND it runs Linux....oh yes I am definitely getting one. Thanks for the link Gene! Matt ---- Gene Buckle wrote: > On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > > > > > Nice! It appears to be a little less than 3.5" and square, which is > > almost perfect for single glass instruments (HSI, attitude indicator, > > etc). I am reaching a point where I can make so many real gauges, I > > don't have room to fit my 15" monitor behind the instrument panel > > anymore. This might be a solution......I will still try to scrounge up > > an old radar though. I want it to look/be real...IOW, I want someone to > > be able to look right at the radar bezel and buttons, touch it and use > > it, and not be able to tell the difference between mine and a real one. > > :) > > You guys should check out the Raspberry Pi. IT's a full-featured GP > computer for $35. http://www.raspberrypi.org > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a > server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. > [Cipher in a.s.r] > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! From fsim at rwaltman.com Sat Feb 18 06:37:35 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:37:35 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: References: <20120215012024.M4A6E.518378.imail@eastrmwml206> Message-ID: <4F3FB7AF.8060405@rwaltman.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > You guys should check out the Raspberry Pi. I have been following it since it was announced and plan to buy a few, but for different uses. We are not comparing apples to apples here, the main thing the GPS's I was talking about provide is a screen. -- Roberto Waltman From fsim at rwaltman.com Sat Feb 18 07:17:01 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 10:17:01 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120218033120.TS88R.361605.imail@fed1rmwml304> References: <20120218033120.TS88R.361605.imail@fed1rmwml304> Message-ID: <4F3FC0ED.6000209@rwaltman.com> dabigboy at cox.net wrote: ... create an image of the DVD and mount is as a loopback device. ... You can do this with Windows too, but it requires third-party software and is a bit kludgy. MagicDisc works well. Tried it in Windows 7 and XP. http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-magicdisc-overview.htm -- Roberto Waltman From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 18 09:36:07 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:36:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120218033120.TS88R.361605.imail@fed1rmwml304> References: <20120218033120.TS88R.361605.imail@fed1rmwml304> Message-ID: > Incidentally, I got the radar working the other night.....it properly > updates from X-Plane (on the same PC or a network PC as well), while > giving a very convincing "sweep", exactly like a real radar. Now I can > do the interface design, overlays, legends, input handling, etc...it's > all fun stuff from here. :) >Ahh,neat! > I do seem to recall some funny distortions in the side views at extreme > FOVs, is that what you're referring to? Yep, that's it. If you go over certain width & hight the image generator completely looses it's mind. Now there's nothing saying you can't use FSX or XP10 as the input engine to the FG display. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 18 09:39:40 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 09:39:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120218033523.OB1II.361609.imail@fed1rmwml304> References: <20120218033523.OB1II.361609.imail@fed1rmwml304> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Oh my goodness! That is extremely cool...heck I could stick one of these > in each radio if I needed to, and make my radios stand-alone > PCs....crazy! And cheap, AND it runs Linux....oh yes I am definitely > getting one. Thanks for the link Gene! > No problem. The R'Pi has a built in GPU with OpenGL support - it can watch video at 1080p with no frame skips, so I suspect the GPU is pretty fast. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From fsim at rwaltman.com Sat Feb 18 14:41:14 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:41:14 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: References: <20120218033523.OB1II.361609.imail@fed1rmwml304> Message-ID: <4F40290A.1090707@rwaltman.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > No problem. The R'Pi has a built in GPU with OpenGL support - it can > watch video at 1080p with no frame skips, so I suspect the GPU is pretty > fast. It is (allegedly) the same CPU/GPU used in the Roku 2 XS media streamer, so yes and yes. -- Roberto Waltman From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 18 15:03:06 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:03:06 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Free open-source screen warping software (!!!) Message-ID: <20120218180306.H2H0Y.359771.imail@fed1rmwml301> Found a potential gem for folks who need to do screen warping and don't want to have to sell their bodies to science to buy software licenses. :) http://orihalcon.jp/projdesigner It appears to handle just about any type of screen you might need, as well as arbitrary node-based warping, AND edge-blending. Looks like it will take a little extra work to get it into our sims (basically, sticking his code into your own OpenGL code), or even use the GLWare OpenGL driver to make it work under ANY OpenGL app. But that should be a piece of cake compared to actually writing the warping software (and the projection design program) from scratch. And of course, being open-source and OpenGL-based, it is cross-platform (Windows-only binaries on the page, but the latest source I downloaded appears to be set up for Linux as well). Obviously it won't do much good if you are running a proprietary or Direct3D-only sim, but for the rest of us, this could be just the thing for running curved screens, I hope! I am going to see about writing an X-Plane plugin with his code. Matt From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 18 10:42:35 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 10:42:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! Message-ID: I wondered why my network link was slow. http://hackaday.com/2012/02/17/collimated-displays-wrap-around-that-home-cockpit/?utm_sou rce=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&repl ytocom=584244 Apparently, I got Hack-A-Day'd. :) \o/ g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com Sat Feb 18 15:16:18 2012 From: Sean.Galbraith at pacificsimulators.com (Sean Galbraith) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 12:16:18 +1300 Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2FB39A1077E2CC48BD7ECF1A3C363FEBD6F8DB@PS-CH1.pacsim.local> Woohoo! You made the bigtime now Gene! SeanG > -----Original Message----- > From: simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org > [mailto:simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle > Sent: Sunday, 19 February 2012 7:43 a.m. > To: simpits-tech at simpits.org > Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! > > I wondered why my network link was slow. > > http://hackaday.com/2012/02/17/collimated-displays-wrap-around > -that-home-cockpit/?utm_sou > rce=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2 > FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&repl > ytocom=584244 > > Apparently, I got Hack-A-Day'd. :) > > \o/ > > g. > > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A > Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't > make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle > makes you a duck. > [Cipher in a.s.r] > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of > the above page. Thanks! > From roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk Sat Feb 18 16:02:37 2012 From: roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk (Roy Coates) Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2012 00:02:37 +0000 Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 18 February 2012 18:42, Gene Buckle wrote: > > Apparently, I got Hack-A-Day'd. :) > > And rightly so. The work you guys are doing there is quite simply fantastic. I'm sure I am not alone in wishing I had the space/time/know-how to be doing it too! Roy. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120219/8bcc6435/attachment.html From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 18 16:38:29 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:38:29 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120218193829.81G0B.360527.imail@fed1rmwml301> Coolness. Congrats! Matt ---- Gene Buckle wrote: > I wondered why my network link was slow. > > http://hackaday.com/2012/02/17/collimated-displays-wrap-around-that-home-cockpit/?utm_sou > rce=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hackaday%2FLgoM+%28Hack+a+Day%29&repl > ytocom=584244 > > Apparently, I got Hack-A-Day'd. :) > > \o/ > > g. > > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. > Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a > server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. > [Cipher in a.s.r] > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! From fsim at rwaltman.com Sat Feb 18 16:42:04 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:42:04 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4F40455C.70001@rwaltman.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > > Apparently, I got Hack-A-Day'd. :) > Congratulations! Next stop, a collimated display around the White House? From fsim at rwaltman.com Sat Feb 18 16:46:36 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:46:36 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Free open-source screen warping software (!!!) In-Reply-To: <20120218180306.H2H0Y.359771.imail@fed1rmwml301> References: <20120218180306.H2H0Y.359771.imail@fed1rmwml301> Message-ID: <4F40466C.3070500@rwaltman.com> dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Found a potential gem > http://orihalcon.jp/projdesigner Great find! I wished I spoke Japanese. Once in a while great projects like this pop up - I am sure there are many other jewels that remain unknown to us because they are not presented in English. -- Roberto Waltman From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 18 18:48:03 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 18:48:03 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Solved a mystery! In-Reply-To: <4F40455C.70001@rwaltman.com> Message-ID: <20120218214803.DPWGG.361396.imail@fed1rmwml301> ---- Roberto Waltman wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > Apparently, I got Hack-A-Day'd. :) > > > > Congratulations! Next stop, a collimated display around the > White House? Great idea! Just think, you could protest in front of the White House without actually protesting in front of the White House. :) Matt From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Feb 18 14:29:00 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 14:29:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Free open-source screen warping software (!!!) In-Reply-To: <4F40466C.3070500@rwaltman.com> References: <20120218180306.H2H0Y.359771.imail@fed1rmwml301> <4F40466C.3070500@rwaltman.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Feb 2012, Roberto Waltman wrote: > dabigboy at cox.net wrote: >> Found a potential gem >> http://orihalcon.jp/projdesigner > > Great find! I wished I spoke Japanese. Once in a while > great projects like this pop up - I am sure there are many > other jewels that remain unknown to us because they are not > presented in English. > FYI, that guy handles the MacOS installer for the FlightGear project. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Sat Feb 18 20:28:56 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:28:56 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120218033523.OB1II.361609.imail@fed1rmwml304> References: <20120218033523.OB1II.361609.imail@fed1rmwml304> Message-ID: <4F407A88.1030302@gmail.com> On 2/18/2012 2:35 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Oh my goodness! That is extremely cool...heck I could stick one of these in each radio if I needed to, and make my radios stand-alone PCs....crazy! And cheap, AND it runs Linux....oh yes I am definitely getting one. Thanks for the link Gene! > > Matt > > ---- Gene Buckle wrote: >> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: >> >>> Nice! It appears to be a little less than 3.5" and square, which is >>> almost perfect for single glass instruments (HSI, attitude indicator, >>> etc). I am reaching a point where I can make so many real gauges, I >>> don't have room to fit my 15" monitor behind the instrument panel >>> anymore. This might be a solution......I will still try to scrounge up >>> an old radar though. I want it to look/be real...IOW, I want someone to >>> be able to look right at the radar bezel and buttons, touch it and use >>> it, and not be able to tell the difference between mine and a real one. >>> :) >> You guys should check out the Raspberry Pi. IT's a full-featured GP >> computer for $35. http://www.raspberrypi.org >> >> g. >> >> -- >> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 >> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. >> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. >> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. >> >> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment >> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. >> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! >> >> Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a >> server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. >> [Cipher in a.s.r] >> _______________________________________________ >> Simpits-tech mailing list >> Simpits-tech at simpits.org >> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech >> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! Im going to pick one up myself .. but my radios are in one Gables 5 in one unit thats 3 comms, 2 navs.. the interface is ARINC410 (http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/airinc-410/) which i designed a interface for the Aruino parallel ports.. this solution does not require any change to the radio head! As an engineer I hate to redevelop the wheel.. lol my adapter is only on paper as I have been caught short for cash and was looking into using a Xilinx part to get rid of all the gates... I will try and put enough info up in my blog to show one channel. my unit will handle lots of radios, 5 bits of data per head + power, + dial lamps, dme lights, etc. also when you read the radio you also see the power switch.. each radio also has volume control out puts all 3 wires so you can do you own thing.. what I have planed is a network radio connection with its output (may just use one computer with lots of audio adapters in it.. then all the outputs goes through the radio head(s) and to a unity gain mixer then to a little amp and to speakers or headphones.. oh yes you most likely like a second output off the mixer to the 'data recorder'.... enjoy Cris H. phoenixcomm.wordpress.com phoenixaeospace.us flite-tronics.com From dabigboy at cox.net Sat Feb 18 23:15:38 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:15:38 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F407A88.1030302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120219021538.7OW4Y.362523.imail@fed1rmwml301> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: > Im going to pick one up myself .. but my radios are in one Gables 5 in > one unit thats 3 comms, 2 navs.. > the interface is ARINC410 > (http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/airinc-410 Funny you should mention this, I have a Gables navcom unit on my desk right now. I emailed Gables and they actually sent me the pinout for this model, which has proven immensely helpful. I have the code figured out for the nav side (which is all I need), I'm soldering up a test harness right now. I will actually be interfacing it with a USB joystick controller, no special circuits needed! Although it would be slick to roll my own little microcontroller (or just use an Arduino) to simplify things on the PC end (less inputs, the Arduino would figure out what freq is selected ad spit it out to the PC). Once I verify everything will work as planned, I'm going to make more permanent connection mounts (like a small avionics tray with a breadboard on it) and mount it in my as-of-yet unbuilt avionics stack....even have a real audio panel to hook it into. :) (The nav and com both have volume control.) As you probably know, the Gables units have integrated lighting, so it should look really nice installed. And the old-school analog look is perfect for the classic bizjets and midsize twins I intend to simulate. This is some seriously fun stuff. :) Matt From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Mon Feb 20 20:00:00 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:00:00 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120219021538.7OW4Y.362523.imail@fed1rmwml301> References: <20120219021538.7OW4Y.362523.imail@fed1rmwml301> Message-ID: <4F4316C0.5030201@gmail.com> On 2/19/2012 1:15 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >> Im going to pick one up myself .. but my radios are in one Gables 5 in >> one unit thats 3 comms, 2 navs.. >> the interface is ARINC410 >> (http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/airinc-410 > Funny you should mention this, I have a Gables navcom unit on my desk right now. I emailed Gables and they actually sent me the pinout for this model, which has proven immensely helpful. I have the code figured out for the nav side (which is all I need), I'm soldering up a test harness right now. I will actually be interfacing it with a USB joystick controller, no special circuits needed! Although it would be slick to roll my own little microcontroller (or just use an Arduino) to simplify things on the PC end (less inputs, the Arduino would figure out what freq is selected ad spit it out to the PC). Once I verify everything will work as planned, I'm going to make more permanent connection mounts (like a small avionics tray with a breadboard on it) and mount it in my as-of-yet unbuilt avionics stack....even have a real audio panel to hook it into. :) (The nav and com both have volume control.) As you probably know, the Gables units have integrated lighting, so it should look r > eally nice installed. And the old-school analog look is perfect for the classic bizjets and midsize twins I intend to simulate. > > This is some seriously fun stuff. :) > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > Hey Matt hang on there.. I just posted a new post about ARINC 410 and some proto info.. lots of info http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/arinc-410interface/ Enjoy.. Cris H. Phoenixcomm at wordpress.com phoenixaerospace.us flite-tronics.com From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Mon Feb 20 22:21:35 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 00:21:35 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F4316C0.5030201@gmail.com> References: <20120219021538.7OW4Y.362523.imail@fed1rmwml301> <4F4316C0.5030201@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4F4337EF.1030405@gmail.com> On 2/20/2012 10:00 PM, Cris Harrison wrote: > On 2/19/2012 1:15 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: >> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >>> Im going to pick one up myself .. but my radios are in one Gables 5 in >>> one unit thats 3 comms, 2 navs.. >>> the interface is ARINC410 >>> (http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/airinc-410 >> Funny you should mention this, I have a Gables navcom unit on my desk >> right now. I emailed Gables and they actually sent me the pinout for >> this model, which has proven immensely helpful. I have the code >> figured out for the nav side (which is all I need), I'm soldering up >> a test harness right now. I will actually be interfacing it with a >> USB joystick controller, no special circuits needed! Although it >> would be slick to roll my own little microcontroller (or just use an >> Arduino) to simplify things on the PC end (less inputs, the Arduino >> would figure out what freq is selected ad spit it out to the PC). >> Once I verify everything will work as planned, I'm going to make more >> permanent connection mounts (like a small avionics tray with a >> breadboard on it) and mount it in my as-of-yet unbuilt avionics >> stack....even have a real audio panel to hook it into. :) (The nav >> and com both have volume control.) As you probably know, the Gables >> units have integrated lighting, so it should look r >> eally nice installed. And the old-school analog look is perfect for >> the classic bizjets and midsize twins I intend to simulate. >> >> This is some seriously fun stuff. :) >> >> Matt >> _______________________________________________ >> Simpits-tech mailing list >> Simpits-tech at simpits.org >> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech >> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the >> above page. Thanks! >> > Hey Matt hang on there.. I just posted a new post about ARINC 410 and > some proto info.. lots of info > http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/arinc-410interface/ > > Enjoy.. > Cris H. > Phoenixcomm at wordpress.com > phoenixaerospace.us > flite-tronics.com > > BTW how in the world are you going to use a joystick controler??? Cris H. From dabigboy at cox.net Mon Feb 20 22:24:42 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:24:42 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Simple (?) electronics question - potentiometers Message-ID: <20120221012442.8WHBK.381426.imail@fed1rmwml301> Alright, got a little dilemma here, hoping someone can help. I am wiring up this Gables nav head for my sim, and the left side of the frequency selector (the 108-117) uses a bunch of resistors to determine frequency....basically, there are two signal pins. Resistance between those pins is varied depending on frequency selection. "Great!" methinks, "I can just wire this into a joystick axis and voila!" Old gameport joysticks just use two wires, so it should be OK, right? Well, apparently my controller (a Beta Innovations Plasma V2) REQUIRES the ground terminal of the pot to be connected. It appears to me that all the ground pot does is provide a "reference" voltage, ergo, the max resistance of the pot. The Plasma manual says you hook the wiper terminal of the pot to any analog input, then hook the other two terminals (+ and -) to any common voltage and common ground terminal, respectively. A pot measures its max resistance between the + and - terminals, all the time....so, I tried using resistors to equal the max resistance of the resistor pack on the Gables unit, and wire that to a common negative and common positive terminal on the Plasma. It did not work. How would I go about wiring this up? I don't really understand why the Plasma (and Bodnar board, for that matter) "need" the pots grounded to even just have the axis show up and move a little. Or is it that the Plasma needs to see the resistance between the wiper and ground be the INVERSE of the resistance going to the analog input? If that is the case, I'm not sure how I can make this work........ Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Mon Feb 20 22:41:48 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:41:48 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F4337EF.1030405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120221014148.X94Z8.381523.imail@fed1rmwml301> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: > >> > > Hey Matt hang on there.. I just posted a new post about ARINC 410 and > > some proto info.. lots of info > > http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/arinc-410interface/ Thanks Chris, you have some good info there! Your chart looks really close to the JPG that Gables sent me. > BTW how in the world are you going to use a joystick controler??? > Cris H. Well, call it a cave-man approach, but since I don't have an Arduino or similar unit yet, and since my microcontroller skills are most definitely in their infancy to say the least.....I am wiring the 8 inputs for the decimal place on NAV to 8 inputs on my Plasma V2 controller, with the Gables common lead going to VCC on the Plasma. With software, I simply check the status of each input, in order, and end up wiith essentially an 8-bit string that is unique for each frequency. I already have this part working within X-Plane. For the whole numbers, there are only 10 unique values, and the head uses a resistor pack. Two leads get different resistance values based on frequency. I was just going to wire this into one analog input and read its value to determine frequency. The problem I'm having right now is detailed in my other post....basically, the Plasma needs to see the ground terminal of the "potentiometer" in order to read it. Of course, there really is no ground terminal for the resistor pack...I think? At the end of the day I will be using 8 digital inputs plus one analog input for this and similar heads. I suppose that's really no worse than using 8 + 1 inputs of an Arduino, the only difference is the (extremely light) processing would happen on the Arduino instead of inside an X-Plane plugin on the PC. At any rate, the code is ludicrously simple this way. Matt From roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 01:28:16 2012 From: roy at flightlab.liv.ac.uk (Roy Coates) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:28:16 +0000 Subject: [simpits-tech] Simple (?) electronics question - potentiometers In-Reply-To: <20120221012442.8WHBK.381426.imail@fed1rmwml301> References: <20120221012442.8WHBK.381426.imail@fed1rmwml301> Message-ID: The signal you (and the boards) are interested in is between the wiper and the ground pin. The voltage on the wiper will vary from the supply voltage (on your + pin) and the ground pin. So, wire your supply voltage to the + pin. wire your - pin to the ground. Take a wire from the wiper to the input of your plasma board. Roy. On 21 February 2012 06:24, wrote: > Alright, got a little dilemma here, hoping someone can help. I am wiring > up this Gables nav head for my sim, and the left side of the frequency > selector (the 108-117) uses a bunch of resistors to determine > frequency....basically, there are two signal pins. Resistance between those > pins is varied depending on frequency selection. "Great!" methinks, "I can > just wire this into a joystick axis and voila!" Old gameport joysticks just > use two wires, so it should be OK, right? Well, apparently my controller (a > Beta Innovations Plasma V2) REQUIRES the ground terminal of the pot to be > connected. > > It appears to me that all the ground pot does is provide a "reference" > voltage, ergo, the max resistance of the pot. The Plasma manual says you > hook the wiper terminal of the pot to any analog input, then hook the other > two terminals (+ and -) to any common voltage and common ground terminal, > respectively. A pot measures its max resistance between the + and - > terminals, all the time....so, I tried using resistors to equal the max > resistance of the resistor pack on the Gables unit, and wire that to a > common negative and common positive terminal on the Plasma. It did not work. > > How would I go about wiring this up? I don't really understand why the > Plasma (and Bodnar board, for that matter) "need" the pots grounded to even > just have the axis show up and move a little. Or is it that the Plasma > needs to see the resistance between the wiper and ground be the INVERSE of > the resistance going to the analog input? If that is the case, I'm not sure > how I can make this work........ > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above > page. Thanks! > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120221/ddd70e4d/attachment-0001.html From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Tue Feb 21 01:52:31 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 03:52:31 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120221014148.X94Z8.381523.imail@fed1rmwml301> References: <20120221014148.X94Z8.381523.imail@fed1rmwml301> Message-ID: <4F43695F.1010405@gmail.com> On 2/21/2012 12:41 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >>> Hey Matt hang on there.. I just posted a new post about ARINC 410 and >>> some proto info.. lots of info >>> http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/arinc-410interface/ > Thanks Chris, you have some good info there! Your chart looks really close to the JPG that Gables sent me. > >> BTW how in the world are you going to use a joystick controler??? >> Cris H. > Well, call it a cave-man approach, but since I don't have an Arduino or similar unit yet, and since my microcontroller skills are most definitely in their infancy to say the least.....I am wiring the 8 inputs for the decimal place on NAV to 8 inputs on my Plasma V2 controller, with the Gables common lead going to VCC on the Plasma. With software, I simply check the status of each input, in order, and end up wiith essentially an 8-bit string that is unique for each frequency. I already have this part working within X-Plane. > > For the whole numbers, there are only 10 unique values, and the head uses a resistor pack. Two leads get different resistance values based on frequency. I was just going to wire this into one analog input and read its value to determine frequency. The problem I'm having right now is detailed in my other post....basically, the Plasma needs to see the ground terminal of the "potentiometer" in order to read it. Of course, there really is no ground terminal for the resistor pack...I think? > > At the end of the day I will be using 8 digital inputs plus one analog input for this and similar heads. I suppose that's really no worse than using 8 + 1 inputs of an Arduino, the only difference is the (extremely light) processing would happen on the Arduino instead of inside an X-Plane plugin on the PC. At any rate, the code is ludicrously simple this way. > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > Matt Your idea, with the analog port; it will not work. I have seen people tare up the radio head and change all the wiring (If you really want to go through, and redesign the thing), when you have the pin-out! just get a connector and build a nice cable. Ok. If you have old Gables head its ARINC410.. a 2 of 5 code thats only 5bits per digit (not 8). and 5 digits.... per radio head. I described ARINC 410 here http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/airinc-410/ then I showed 1 bit here http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/radiointercom-system/g-4390/ and then my latest http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/arinc-410interface/ puts it all together you could use a pc's bi-directional printer port and then hang the interface off that.. but then you will have to run the interface on the PC itself.. and my 'driver' is just a few loops. and its not interrupt driven. and the thing you have to remember in all this the radio head (the gables unit), is LOW ACTIVE!! this means the driver has to take the info that you send back to the sim, and invert or logically NOT it.. in the 'driver' not the right word, you must scan through each radio then trough all 5 channels. the way I designed the 'driver' or subsystem is that you only 'talk' to the sim when you have something to say. that is to say when you the pilot change the knob on the panel. From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Tue Feb 21 02:11:10 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 04:11:10 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Simple (?) electronics question - potentiometers In-Reply-To: References: <20120221012442.8WHBK.381426.imail@fed1rmwml301> Message-ID: <4F436DBE.8070503@gmail.com> On 2/21/2012 3:28 AM, Roy Coates wrote: > > The signal you (and the boards) are interested in is between the wiper > and the ground pin. The voltage on the wiper will vary from the supply > voltage (on your + pin) and the ground pin. > > So, wire your supply voltage to the + pin. > wire your - pin to the ground. > Take a wire from the wiper to the input of your plasma board. > > Roy. > > > On 21 February 2012 06:24, > wrote: > > Alright, got a little dilemma here, hoping someone can help. I am > wiring up this Gables nav head for my sim, and the left side of > the frequency selector (the 108-117) uses a bunch of resistors to > determine frequency....basically, there are two signal pins. > Resistance between those pins is varied depending on frequency > selection. "Great!" methinks, "I can just wire this into a > joystick axis and voila!" Old gameport joysticks just use two > wires, so it should be OK, right? Well, apparently my controller > (a Beta Innovations Plasma V2) REQUIRES the ground terminal of the > pot to be connected. > > It appears to me that all the ground pot does is provide a > "reference" voltage, ergo, the max resistance of the pot. The > Plasma manual says you hook the wiper terminal of the pot to any > analog input, then hook the other two terminals (+ and -) to any > common voltage and common ground terminal, respectively. A pot > measures its max resistance between the + and - terminals, all the > time....so, I tried using resistors to equal the max resistance of > the resistor pack on the Gables unit, and wire that to a common > negative and common positive terminal on the Plasma. It did not work. > > How would I go about wiring this up? I don't really understand why > the Plasma (and Bodnar board, for that matter) "need" the pots > grounded to even just have the axis show up and move a little. Or > is it that the Plasma needs to see the resistance between the > wiper and ground be the INVERSE of the resistance going to the > analog input? If that is the case, I'm not sure how I can make > this work........ > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the > above page. Thanks! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! Roy you are right that how a pot works but Mat is going down the wrong road. 1. Gables heads use ARINC410 2. They do not generate a voltage, frequency or anything else. 3. They are a 5 bit device not 8 4. They are LOW active. I have not looked at yours but the resistors are pull up. 5. to show you self whats going on get 5 leds and wire them to the channel (one led per bit) the other end to power. (check to see which way your led goes and remember to use a 220 ohm resister in series with the led to limit its current and not burn out) 6. Freq selector common to logic ground 7. now watch the leds as you rotate the knob.. also send me your pdf and I will look at it for you... harrison at phoenixaerospace.us Cris. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120221/2d74db72/attachment.html From contrapezist at sportogs.com Tue Feb 21 18:59:14 2012 From: contrapezist at sportogs.com (Contrapezist) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:59:14 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Simple (?) electronics question - potentiometers In-Reply-To: <4F436DBE.8070503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2500107EDB774F048716943E3008E5C2@circustar2> I don't speak up often but was going to chime in on this one. Closest to a voltage control was my synchro tuned Collins ADF I was playing with over the weekend. I did a video on 2 out of 5 here http://youtu.be/4skhmZhXjjo strangely with a gables control head. Austin _____ _______________________________________________ Simpits-tech mailing list Simpits-tech at simpits.org http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! Roy you are right that how a pot works but Mat is going down the wrong road. 1. Gables heads use ARINC410 2. They do not generate a voltage, frequency or anything else. 3. They are a 5 bit device not 8 4. They are LOW active. I have not looked at yours but the resistors are pull up. 5. to show you self whats going on get 5 leds and wire them to the channel (one led per bit) the other end to power. (check to see which way your led goes and remember to use a 220 ohm resister in series with the led to limit its current and not burn out) 6. Freq selector common to logic ground 7. now watch the leds as you rotate the knob.. also send me your pdf and I will look at it for you... harrison at phoenixaerospace.us Cris. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120221/58affb6a/attachment.html From dabigboy at cox.net Tue Feb 21 22:29:32 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 22:29:32 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F43695F.1010405@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120222012932.UISFA.397680.imail@fed1rmwml214> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: > > Matt > Your idea, with the analog port; it will not work. > > I have seen people tare up the radio head and change all the wiring (If > you really want to go through, and redesign the thing), when you have > the pin-out! just get a connector and build a nice cable. Hmmmm I think I see part of my problem...I saw the resistor pack on the whole digits and just assumed the actual radio was reading the resistance value based on frequency selection....but then there should only be two terminals for the whole digits, while clearly there are more. One of your diagrams just "clicked" for me now....by "2 of 5" you're saying that for one set of digits (tenths, for instance) there are 5 wires on the back of the Gables unit, and only two of those will be active at any given time? I think my particular unit uses one or two more wires, but I see what you're saying here. So my whole digits must be using the same kind of idea, I just didn't realize it at first.......so I'm guessing the resistors on the whole digits rotary switch are actually pull-down resistors? Hrrmm.....I am still a bit unclear, but the fog is slowly lifting. :) I haven't hackerized the whole digits yet, perhaps I need to grab the multimeter and revisit them. Btw, the ONLY reason I am forced to cut into the wiring harness for the head is that the connectors are over $100 a piece....doesn't make much sense to spend $300+ for something that barely cost me $40. Even if I can make the original wiring scheme work, I will still have to cut into the wiring and use something other than the built-in connector. It does suck. :( Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Tue Feb 21 22:36:04 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 22:36:04 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Simple (?) electronics question - potentiometers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20120222013604.O8D7J.397712.imail@fed1rmwml214> ---- Roy Coates wrote: > The signal you (and the boards) are interested in is between the wiper and > the ground pin. The voltage on the wiper will vary from the supply voltage > (on your + pin) and the ground pin. > > So, wire your supply voltage to the + pin. > wire your - pin to the ground. > Take a wire from the wiper to the input of your plasma board. > > Roy. Yep, sounds like what I've been doing with my actual potentiometers....but the situation I have now is with just a resistor pack, all I have is two leads with resistors in the middle. But it is helpful to know the Plasma is measuring the difference on the wiper between the + voltage and the - voltage readings, and that that's what the Plasma wants to see. I was under the impression that the Plasma only cared about the amount of voltage going into the analog input pin from any common voltage pin. I'm still having trouble visualizing exactly how I can make that work with a resistor pack, but it gives me something to think about. Matt From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Wed Feb 22 04:28:41 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 06:28:41 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120222012932.UISFA.397680.imail@fed1rmwml214> References: <20120222012932.UISFA.397680.imail@fed1rmwml214> Message-ID: <4F44DF79.40906@gmail.com> On 2/22/2012 12:29 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >> Matt >> Your idea, with the analog port; it will not work. >> >> I have seen people tare up the radio head and change all the wiring (If >> you really want to go through, and redesign the thing), when you have >> the pin-out! just get a connector and build a nice cable. > > > Hmmmm I think I see part of my problem...I saw the resistor pack on the whole digits and just assumed the actual radio was reading the resistance value based on frequency selection....but then there should only be two terminals for the whole digits, while clearly there are more. > > One of your diagrams just "clicked" for me now....by "2 of 5" you're saying that for one set of digits (tenths, for instance) there are 5 wires on the back of the Gables unit, and only two of those will be active at any given time? I think my particular unit uses one or two more wires, but I see what you're saying here. So my whole digits must be using the same kind of idea, I just didn't realize it at first.......so I'm guessing the resistors on the whole digits rotary switch are actually pull-down resistors? Hrrmm.....I am still a bit unclear, but the fog is slowly lifting. :) Hay the fog has lifted... sorry bout the stick I was hitting you with... so to some it up.. Each digit has 5 wires (bits) and only 2 of them will be low the other 3 will be pulled up> :) I found a video on you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skhmZhXjjo&feature=endscreen&NR=1 your right about the connectors... OUCH. ok look up Connector Distribution in LA check them out also them them that you dont care if its in plastic or if it scratched... I realy dont know what else you are going to use... > > I haven't hackerized the whole digits yet, perhaps I need to grab the multimeter and revisit them. Btw, the ONLY reason I am forced to cut into the wiring harness for the head is that the connectors are over $100 a piece....doesn't make much sense to spend $300+ for something that barely cost me $40. Even if I can make the original wiring scheme work, I will still have to cut into the wiring and use something other than the built-in connector. It does suck. :( > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > From Contrapezist at sportogs.com Thu Feb 23 03:02:29 2012 From: Contrapezist at sportogs.com (Contrapezist) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:02:29 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F44DF79.40906@gmail.com> References: <20120222012932.UISFA.397680.imail@fed1rmwml214> <4F44DF79.40906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000301ccf21a$a40c4200$ec24c600$@com> I'm not totally opposed to changing the connectors, sometimes I have a hard time finding the right ones reasonably. Sometimes I get stuff with a cut off connector, these have a fairly high scrap value due to the gold plating. D connectors will usually suffice. A lot of times if I have the proper connector I end up just terminating it to D connector anyway. BTW Anyone else get frustrated to death over slight differences between bendix, cannon and deustch. Have the right clocking same number and gauge of pins but slightly different diameter. Need to set up a parts exchange, I have a mess of connectors that don't fit anything I have as I'm sure others do. Myself I haven't had much luck getting information out of gables, over the years my requests for information have gone unanswered so I just gave up. Have some nice audio panels that will be quite an effort to reverse engineer that are just gathering dust. Glad the video helped shine some light on what's happening. The guy that made it is real oddball nut with a ridiculous bunch of crap and spends way too much time playing with "black boxes" rather than building usable sim stuff. I think I used errr he used 10K resistors and 28V no special reason it just happened to work. Austin -----Original Message----- From: simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org] On Behalf Of Cris Harrison Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:29 AM To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) On 2/22/2012 12:29 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >> Matt >> Your idea, with the analog port; it will not work. >> >> I have seen people tare up the radio head and change all the wiring (If >> you really want to go through, and redesign the thing), when you have >> the pin-out! just get a connector and build a nice cable. > > Hay the fog has lifted... sorry bout the stick I was hitting you with... so to some it up.. Each digit has 5 wires (bits) and only 2 of them will be low the other 3 will be pulled up> :) I found a video on you tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skhmZhXjjo&feature=endscreen&NR=1 your right about the connectors... OUCH. ok look up Connector Distribution in LA check them out also them them that you dont care if its in plastic or if it scratched... I realy dont know what else you are going to use... > > I haven't hackerized the whole digits yet, perhaps I need to grab the multimeter and revisit them. Btw, the ONLY reason I am forced to cut into the wiring harness for the head is that the connectors are over $100 a piece....doesn't make much sense to spend $300+ for something that barely cost me $40. Even if I can make the original wiring scheme work, I will still have to cut into the wiring and use something other than the built-in connector. It does suck. :( > > Matt From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Thu Feb 23 05:30:18 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 07:30:18 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Gables/Connectors In-Reply-To: <000301ccf21a$a40c4200$ec24c600$@com> References: <20120222012932.UISFA.397680.imail@fed1rmwml214> <4F44DF79.40906@gmail.com> <000301ccf21a$a40c4200$ec24c600$@com> Message-ID: <4F463F6A.1060305@gmail.com> On 2/23/2012 5:02 AM, Contrapezist wrote: > I'm not totally opposed to changing the connectors, sometimes I have a hard > time finding the right ones reasonably. Sometimes I get stuff with a cut off > connector, these have a fairly high scrap value due to the gold plating. D > connectors will usually suffice. A lot of times if I have the proper > connector I end up just terminating it to D connector anyway. BTW Anyone > else get frustrated to death over slight differences between bendix, cannon > and deustch. Have the right clocking same number and gauge of pins but > slightly different diameter. Need to set up a parts exchange, I have a mess > of connectors that don't fit anything I have as I'm sure others do. That why connector houses make money.. no two are alike.. I could do what you suggested about a 'exchange'. to launch it I would need the following: part-number, manufacture, new/used, condition, quanity. Each Vendor (lack of a better word) would list his/her parts. .... > > Myself I haven't had much luck getting information out of gables, over the > years my requests for information have gone unanswered so I just gave up. what do you mean 'requests for information'? ie email?? nah just call the girl in charge of documents, though you will not get the 'book' you will get outline, and pinout info.. > Have some nice audio panels that will be quite an effort to reverse engineer > that are just gathering dust. which audio panels.. (always looking for panels my self) photos & numbers :) > > Glad the video helped shine some light on what's happening. > The guy that > made it is real oddball nut with a ridiculous bunch of crap and spends way > too much time playing with "black boxes" rather than building usable sim > stuff. I think I used errr he used 10K resistors and 28V no special reason > it just happened to work. duh why put yourself down?? we are all nuts, and we spend waaaay to much time paying with boxes... LOL. > > Austin > > -----Original Message----- > From: simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org > [mailto:simpits-tech-bounces at simpits.org] On Behalf Of Cris Harrison > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:29 AM > To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List > Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) > > On 2/22/2012 12:29 AM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: >> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >>> Matt >>> Your idea, with the analog port; it will not work. >>> >>> I have seen people tare up the radio head and change all the wiring (If >>> you really want to go through, and redesign the thing), when you have >>> the pin-out! just get a connector and build a nice cable. >> >> > Hay the fog has lifted... sorry bout the stick I was hitting you > with... so to some it up.. > Each digit has 5 wires (bits) and only 2 of them will be low the other 3 > will be pulled up> :) > I found a video on you tube: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skhmZhXjjo&feature=endscreen&NR=1 > > > your right about the connectors... OUCH. ok look up Connector > Distribution in LA check them out also them them that you dont care if > its in plastic or if it scratched... I realy dont know what else you are > going to use... >> I haven't hackerized the whole digits yet, perhaps I need to grab the > multimeter and revisit them. Btw, the ONLY reason I am forced to cut into > the wiring harness for the head is that the connectors are over $100 a > piece....doesn't make much sense to spend $300+ for something that barely > cost me $40. Even if I can make the original wiring scheme work, I will > still have to cut into the wiring and use something other than the built-in > connector. It does suck. :( >> Matt > > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 23 06:24:39 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 06:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <000301ccf21a$a40c4200$ec24c600$@com> References: <20120222012932.UISFA.397680.imail@fed1rmwml214> <4F44DF79.40906@gmail.com> <000301ccf21a$a40c4200$ec24c600$@com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Feb 2012, Contrapezist wrote: > Myself I haven't had much luck getting information out of gables, over the > years my requests for information have gone unanswered so I just gave up. > Have some nice audio panels that will be quite an effort to reverse engineer > that are just gathering dust. > Austin, your best bet is to find the closest authorized repair station for Gables hardware and strike up a friendship with one of their bench techs. :) It's like what I do when researching some bit about the F-15. I _never_ hunt down a pilot, I go for the maintainers. They're happy to answer my question if they're permitted to and they're generally an awesome bunch of folks to work with. The pilots act like upper management. :) (except one Mudhen driver I know - he's a maintainer in pilot's clothing *grin*) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Feb 23 14:13:45 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:13:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Great FSX add-on... Message-ID: http://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=28496 This one is on my to-buy list for sure... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From dabigboy at cox.net Thu Feb 23 17:33:17 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:33:17 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <000301ccf21a$a40c4200$ec24c600$@com> Message-ID: <20120223203317.II4YQ.421354.imail@fed1rmwml107> ---- Contrapezist wrote: > > Myself I haven't had much luck getting information out of gables, over the > years my requests for information have gone unanswered so I just gave up. > Have some nice audio panels that will be quite an effort to reverse engineer > that are just gathering dust. Strange, I just emailed them and they asked things like my company name, FAA repair station number, address, etc.... :P I replied that I was just a lowly recreational user putting their gear into a home sim. The rep was very clear that they offered no support for the likes of me, but did attach the pinout for the control head in question. :) > Glad the video helped shine some light on what's happening. The guy that > made it is real oddball nut with a ridiculous bunch of crap and spends way > too much time playing with "black boxes" rather than building usable sim > stuff. I think I used errr he used 10K resistors and 28V no special reason > it just happened to work. I was excited to see a digital control head working, that would seem to indicate the actual interface to the radio itself is similar across manufacturers, that it is a standard? If so, that's awesome because I can write one program and use a lot of different types of heads if I want to. Thanks for passing it on! Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Thu Feb 23 17:38:17 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:38:17 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F44DF79.40906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120223203817.JAWWI.421399.imail@fed1rmwml107> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: > Hay the fog has lifted... sorry bout the stick I was hitting you > with... so to some it up.. > Each digit has 5 wires (bits) and only 2 of them will be low the other 3 > will be pulled up> :) > I found a video on you tube: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skhmZhXjjo&feature=endscreen&NR=1 > Oh don't worry about the big stick, I need to be hit over the head now and then. :) I am enjoying the learning process, the simpits list is probably the greatest source of information and inspiration I've had for my flight sim projects. > your right about the connectors... OUCH. ok look up Connector > Distribution in LA check them out also them them that you dont care if > its in plastic or if it scratched... I realy dont know what else you are > going to use... Thanks for the tip, I will check them out. I may also call up my local salvage yard that offered to sell me a stripped Learjet fuselage for $1,500......I'm sure they have tons of connectors from stripped planes. Matt From phoenixcomm at gmail.com Thu Feb 23 19:05:31 2012 From: phoenixcomm at gmail.com (Cris Harrison) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:05:31 -0600 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <20120223203817.JAWWI.421399.imail@fed1rmwml107> References: <20120223203817.JAWWI.421399.imail@fed1rmwml107> Message-ID: <4F46FE7B.904@gmail.com> On 2/23/2012 7:38 PM, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > ---- Cris Harrison wrote: >> Hay the fog has lifted... sorry bout the stick I was hitting you >> with... so to some it up.. >> Each digit has 5 wires (bits) and only 2 of them will be low the other 3 >> will be pulled up> :) >> I found a video on you tube: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4skhmZhXjjo&feature=endscreen&NR=1 >> > Oh don't worry about the big stick, I need to be hit over the head now and then. :) I am enjoying the learning process, the simpits list is probably the greatest source of information and inspiration I've had for my flight sim projects. > >> your right about the connectors... OUCH. ok look up Connector >> Distribution in LA check them out also them them that you dont care if >> its in plastic or if it scratched... I realy dont know what else you are >> going to use... > Thanks for the tip, I will check them out. I may also call up my local salvage yard that offered to sell me a stripped Learjet fuselage for $1,500......I'm sure they have tons of connectors from stripped planes. > > Matt > _______________________________________________ > Simpits-tech mailing list > Simpits-tech at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech > To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! > oh btw Iam looking for ARINC Mounts for my instruments.. most of the stuff you will come across the instrument has 4 holes in the corners.. nope I need the mounts for round or square instruments.. http://www.avionicsmounts.com/ARINC%20408A%20Instrument%20Mounts.php but only if they are cheep!! From dabigboy at cox.net Thu Feb 23 22:49:27 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:49:27 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Gables nav/com - success! Message-ID: <20120224014927.OJS84.424332.imail@fed1rmwml113> The tinkering and questioning and testing has paid off. :) http://youtu.be/JvA6dno3dOs (Sorry for the quality, I just grabbed my 10+ year old camera that was sitting on the desk.) A simple thing, I know, but it makes me happy. :) My sim is actually at a pretty usable state at the moment, but one of the things holding it back for normal use is/was the inability to tune nav radios at all, which makes going somewhere a little cumbersome. Now I can actually grab a chart and do some cross-country work. I can't wait to get to work on my frame/shell and mount my current sim and a bunch of Gables heads in it!!! Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Thu Feb 23 23:14:29 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:14:29 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Image warping (Was: Frustration!) In-Reply-To: <4F46FE7B.904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20120224021429.F3QLG.424416.imail@fed1rmwml113> ---- Cris Harrison wrote: > > > oh btw Iam looking for ARINC Mounts for my instruments.. most of the > stuff you will come across the instrument has 4 holes in the corners.. > nope I need the mounts for round or square instruments.. > http://www.avionicsmounts.com/ARINC%20408A%20Instrument%20Mounts.php but > only if they are cheep!! You and me both! For all the challenges and questions I thought about before I really started working on my sim a couple years ago, mounting hardware and connectors seemed the least of my worries. But it's turning into a daunting challenge....I'm looking at my nice Gables head and some other real-world goodies, and thinking "man I really need the other pieces for this stuff." Well, I will keep my eyes peeled...we have a salvage yard here in town that scraps turboprops and bizjets, I may get a shopping list together some time and see what they can do for me. Matt From dabigboy at cox.net Mon Feb 27 20:44:10 2012 From: dabigboy at cox.net (dabigboy at cox.net) Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:44:10 -0800 Subject: [simpits-tech] Another ebay find......future X-Plane GPS :) Message-ID: <20120227234410.TJNRQ.696640.imail@eastrmwml214> So I ran across a little curiosity on ebay the other night, the price was *almost* right, and the seller went for my modestly lower offer.....I wasn't even sure what it was until some googling turned up info on the old Omega navigation system. Seems it's the control head for a Tracor 7900 CDU, an Omega-based system: http://www.aircraftstock.com/images/newfolder/05302009/ta79001.JPG What's funny is I just found another one on ebay that actually has a bunch of bids and is up to almost twice what I got mine for.......yay for people not including model numbers in the description, right? :) What I can't figure out is what on earth anyone who's NOT into flight simulators would want an Omega CDU for, the system isn't even functioning anymore. But then I see folks fighting over old LORANS now and then too.......filmmakers? Museum curators? Pack-rats? Fellow simpitters? :) Anyway, one of my dilemmas with my simulator has been getting a GPS for my X-Plane-based sim. I want to pick up a used KLN-89 or similar unit and feed it NMEA data, that would be awesome....but even if I have the good fortune to score an annunciator unit with it (I have one now but it's for a Northstar Loran), the one huge shortfall is that it won't be linked to X-Plane's NAV system for using a CDI or HSI for instrument approaches (or even general navigation). As some of you may know, there is virtually no support for writing data to X-Plane's built-in GPS But you can READ from the GPS using the X-Plane SDK, and you can program mouse-clicks at arbitrary points on the screen. So, I have decided to write my own little custom CDU/FMS software for the Tracor (probably running on a small embedded PC), and write mouse-click events to the X-Plane instrument panel for tuning the built-in GPS. Of course once I have that much working, I can go ahead and write all sorts of neat little flight-planning routines (like fuel management, weight/balance screens, and other FMS-ish things), and even parse the built-in nav data to bring up information like frequencies, runways, etc. This shall be fun! Matt From brian at sikkema.us Tue Feb 28 04:15:08 2012 From: brian at sikkema.us (Brian Sikkema) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 21:15:08 +0900 Subject: [simpits-tech] Air Force releases F-15C crash report Message-ID: <4F4CC54C.2040909@sikkema.us> http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123291047 The cause was determined to strongly resemble the cross between an elephant and a rhino. Brian From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Feb 28 08:50:40 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:50:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Another ebay find......future X-Plane GPS :) In-Reply-To: <20120227234410.TJNRQ.696640.imail@eastrmwml214> References: <20120227234410.TJNRQ.696640.imail@eastrmwml214> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > So I ran across a little curiosity on ebay the other night, the price was *almost* right, and the seller went for my modestly lower offer.....I wasn't even sure what it was until some googling turned up info on the old Omega navigation system. Seems it's the control head for a Tracor 7900 CDU, an Omega-based system: > > http://www.aircraftstock.com/images/newfolder/05302009/ta79001.JPG > You might want to look at building something around this: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11075 g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Feb 28 09:09:45 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:09:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Air Force releases F-15C crash report In-Reply-To: <4F4CC54C.2040909@sikkema.us> References: <4F4CC54C.2040909@sikkema.us> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Feb 2012, Brian Sikkema wrote: > http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123291047 > > The cause was determined to strongly resemble the cross between an > elephant and a rhino. > There's nothing quite so useless as altitude above you... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] From raysot at comcast.net Tue Feb 28 11:00:15 2012 From: raysot at comcast.net (raysot at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:00:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [simpits-tech] Air Force releases F-15C crash report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1118682011.120645.1330455615669.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ...runway behind you, air in the fuel tanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: brian at sikkema.us, "Simulator Cockpit Builder's List" Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 9:09:45 AM Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Air Force releases F-15C crash report On Tue, 28 Feb 2012, Brian Sikkema wrote: > http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123291047 > > The cause was determined to strongly resemble the cross between an > elephant and a rhino. > There's nothing quite so useless as altitude above you... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r] _______________________________________________ Simpits-tech mailing list Simpits-tech at simpits.org http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/simpits-tech/attachments/20120228/4590f8c4/attachment-0001.html From fsim at rwaltman.com Tue Feb 28 13:33:39 2012 From: fsim at rwaltman.com (Roberto Waltman) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:33:39 -0500 Subject: [simpits-tech] Another ebay find......future X-Plane GPS :) In-Reply-To: References: <20120227234410.TJNRQ.696640.imail@eastrmwml214> Message-ID: <4F4D4833.2040204@rwaltman.com> Gene Buckle wrote: > You might want to look at building something around this: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11075 Interesting. This one may be more cumbersome to program and mount, but you can get a full Linux system with a slightly smaller touchscreen for ~30 dollars less: http://www.mini-box.com/ARM-Systems (pico) Or a larger screen for ~20 dollars more. (mini-2440) -- Roberto Waltman From bjones at pipecomp.com.au Tue Feb 28 14:53:20 2012 From: bjones at pipecomp.com.au (bjones at pipecomp.com.au) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:53:20 +0800 (WST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Air Force releases F-15C crash report In-Reply-To: <1118682011.120645.1330455615669.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1118682011.120645.1330455615669.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <03f901ccf66b$b4f79600$1ee6c200$@com.au> *?~???????j??????jwZ?'?j?h??^?????,???{ay?????????E????jb??^r??w????+l??&j)m????+l??!n??q?,?jb??+???z?|??k+(??&q?-??Rz{Vy???????^n???-??m???(??V????rJb?????????+???-E?"??????????z??y??]y ??????????k&??)???????????mjy,?&???$?????z[Z???r?????j{"?G?j??k?j?+ ?$?+A?)]z? ??l?jb??^r"??????I??N??u??y??j???m5??=?? J??y?Qz???+l??!*?????^j??^Br???????N?;???^om5??jt??G?k ???m???? q???)??,??h?&??' From raysot at comcast.net Tue Feb 28 14:53:58 2012 From: raysot at comcast.net (raysot at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 22:53:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [simpits-tech] Air Force releases F-15C crash report In-Reply-To: <03f901ccf66b$b4f79600$1ee6c200$@com.au> Message-ID: <1977853543.133521.1330469638987.JavaMail.root@sz0018a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> ^??'x?????t???)???????&n:'z?b??(??(????(??V????rJb????????????+l??!?)???(?????z?Z?W?????o6?]??}? Message-ID: <20120228234136.D6F65.481827.imail@fed1rmwml208> ---- Roberto Waltman wrote: > Gene Buckle wrote: > > > You might want to look at building something around this: > http://www.sparkfun.com/products/11075 > > Interesting. This one may be more cumbersome to program and mount, but > you can get a full Linux system with a slightly smaller touchscreen for > ~30 dollars less: http://www.mini-box.com/ARM-Systems (pico) > Or a larger screen for ~20 dollars more. (mini-2440) Oh my, that does look nice. I only really need the board itself...I have a PS1 LCD that I will use for the display. Main issue with it is I have to use a component (RCA) connection, but the slightly low-quality image should go well with the old-school 80s look I'm going for, what with the Gables analog radios and all. Thanks for the links, guys! Matt From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Feb 29 14:02:29 2012 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 14:02:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [simpits-tech] Another ebay find......future X-Plane GPS :) In-Reply-To: <20120228234136.D6F65.481827.imail@fed1rmwml208> References: <20120228234136.D6F65.481827.imail@fed1rmwml208> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Feb 2012, dabigboy at cox.net wrote: > Oh my, that does look nice. I only really need the board itself...I have > a PS1 LCD that I will use for the display. Main issue with it is I have > to use a component (RCA) connection, but the slightly low-quality image > should go well with the old-school 80s look I'm going for, what with the > Gables analog radios and all. > > Thanks for the links, guys! > Matt, the Raspberry Pi offers an RCA video out and it's $35 for the 256MB version... g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck. [Cipher in a.s.r]