[simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think

Thu, 26 Dec 2002 13:55:41 -0800

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I would echo what Marv is saying here.  A standard is a tough route to
go =96 I for our project know we have almost all the panel wiring done =
now
in the proto unit and I can just hear the yelling if I were to ask the
hardware guys to change it!! :-)  We have all the circuit diagrams, MRB
allocation charts and wiring harness fabrication/BoM lists made up and
it would be far too much back-tracking to pick up a new wiring scheme at
this point.
=20
That said, I think the EPIC programming is relatively straightforward.
It=92s no worse really than writing macro scripts for TM Cougar or
F22pro/TQS controllers.
=20
In practice, I think the way the new device syntax works in EPL, the
most interesting part is actually the logic code that makes the buttons
and lamps and such do what they need to do.  The device structures just
assign procedural code to the particular wiring scheme (MRB
assignments).  I think you could take someone else=92s =93logic=94 code =
and
match it up to your wiring by changing the MRB numbering in the device
structures pretty easily.
=20
I think that=92s your fastest route if you don=92t want to start from
scratch with the EPL coding.  The fly in that ointment is that people
may choose to model switch/lamps etc to different levels.  I know for
example that we are modeling the interactions between the ELEC panel and
TEST panel with respect to the functions the dash-1 describes for the
FLCS test operations.  This is all outside of scope for Falcon4 game
code but EPIC makes it possible to program up the switches and lamps to
work somewhat like the actual jet anyway.  Others may or may not choose
to go to the same level of detail=85and their EPL code will vary
accordingly.
=20
Cheers,
=20
Mark.
=20
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Marv De Beque
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 12:45 PM
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think
=20
I agree.  I wish you luck. =20

However, you might find programming is not so hard as you think.  The
other thing that you should consider is no matter what your pin
assignment you can easily reconfigure the software to agree with it.  It
is not the pin assignments that are your concern, but the functionality
for each input type.

That is, you can assign a function that handles the landing gear, which
should be two switches.  There are actually three states to the F-16
gear.  UP, DOWN, and TRANSITIONING.  You need two switches to capture
those states.  It doesn=92t really matter which inputs they are assigned
to, because you can redefine them in software very easily.

Another function example is when the dogfight switch is engaged some
buttons on the ICP console are disabled.

Lastly, every function must have some sort of output.  This is where the
keystrokes for that function are passed to the PC so they can be
processed in  the sim program.  Sort of where the rubber meets the
street.

So, developing a function for each input type would be valuable.  All
you need do is make sure that it can be easily redefined to the input(s)
of your choice.

That would be a very worth while standard to do and my recommendation.

Marv

On 12/26/02 12:24 PM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wrote:
You got a point there Marv, but if we/I make a wiring diagram for all
the buttons and lamps in an F16 Block 50,
then we mabe can find someone there is hardcore on EPIC to make the code
for it !... and then we
place the file for download "outthere" and by that way we have maked a
"standard" for those to come !

=20
Frank
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Marv De Beque <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> =20
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org=20
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think

Had thought about that and actually discussed that with a few people.

The idea has merit in that everybody has the same set up and we can
share knowledge and debugging tips.

The reality is that it would take a lot of time to come to some
agreement as to what the standard should be.  Look at the aircraft
industry and you see what I mean.  ARINC standards are a good one, but
they take years to come to a delusion and then nobody follows them when
they do because of unforeseen needs.

Now, I would think that we could come to an agreement faster than ARINC
does on a standard for EPIC.  However, there are a number of us that
already have work invested in their own cockpits and the associated
wiring.  Even if we reached an agreement, chances are everyone that
already has stuffed wired up would be violating the new standard.   How
many of those people do you believe would rebuild their systems just to
comply with a new standard?

Personally, I think the best hope is to find one or two others that are
at the same development point as you are and hammer out a standard with
input from anyone else that is interested. =20

Right now I am up to my eyeballs with alligators, so I don=92t have the
time to invest in that part of the project.  Otherwise, I would lend a
hand.

Marv

On 12/26/02 4:03 AM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wrote:
Hi all !

Idea is to make a standard way to wireing the EPIC Input/Output-module
to the panels and one EPIC-file by that way we have created a complet
F16 pit - that all newbees can use, (inclued my self)

All the best
Frank
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Marv De Beque <mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com> =20
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org=20
Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think

Not sure what the =93idea=94 is that you  are asking about.

On 12/25/02 7:10 PM, "Frank Riedel" <frank@rezultat.dk> wrote:
Is it a bad idea ???

Frank

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Frank Riedel <mailto:frank@rezultat.dk> =20
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org=20
Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:52 AM
Subject: [simpits-tech] To all - what do you guys think

Hi Martin "Pegasus" and all other that can help !
Now that we are close to the year 2003, and we all
have make a fantastic work by collecting huge data about
simulator and by that way help one and another... include my self
I startet out collecting information and nowhow at January 2002
and came out this year and have already make all panels with backlight
and now in construction face of my "pit" by help from ALL you guys...
THANKS ALOT ALL

I just need to wireing up all the panels... but when i come to
programing i am
a real "NewBee" and other upcomming pitters will came in same situation,
I
was thinking off makeing a standard connection (wiering) of all the
panels.
I can make all the diagrams look here
http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wireing.htm
<http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wireing.htm> (Not finished)
Will any of you be able to program an EPIC-file after this diagram ???
if so... i think we then will have all drawings and wiering-diagram
complet !
and do any of you have any changes and "=B4hint" to the diagram just =
speak
out ! ! !

Frank

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "F16" <f16@xflight.de <mailto:f16@xflight.de> >
To: <simpits-tech@simpits.org <mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org> >
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:14 PM
Subject: AW: [simpits-tech] Epic hardware

> Hi Frank,
>=20
> the 64BTN modul you can buy - I think - only in Europe by
MicroCockpit. To=20
> the 64BTN modul you must have an ABA modul. The 64BTN modul is for
INPUT,=20
> the 32-point output modul is for OUTPUT. Here is a short description
for=20
> the ABA-, 64BTN- and 32-point output modul (more see on my site=20
> (http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm
<http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm> ):
>=20
> ABA modul:
> The ABA module is the heart of the system. You can connect up to 4
64BTN=20
> modules to it, as well as power 16 analog channels. This module is=20
> connected to the first expansion module by two flat cables.
>=20
> 64BTN modul:
> Up to 64 push-buttons or switches can be connected to this module.
EPIC can=20
> then identify each of them. As EPIC registers any change of each
switch and=20
> processes it separately, only one cable is required to power normal=20
> switches. The ABA can receive up to 4 64 BTN modules, which give you
up to=20
> 256 different controls to be powered.
> On one 64BTN modul you can connect and checked 64 buttons, switches
and=20
> other digital INPUT parts.
>=20
> 32-point output modul:
> Using this module, which is connected to the First Expansion Module
via=20
> EPIC-Bus, up to 32 digital output channels can be powered. That means,
that=20
> you can activate lights, electric motors and other devices. Each
channel=20
> can handle 3 to 50V. Up to 4 Output Modules can be installed, giving
you=20
> 128 channels to be used. On one output modul you can steer up to 32
LED,=20
> lamps or engines. This module is for the OUTPUT.
>=20
> I hope it is helpful for you.
> Martin "Pegasus"
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org <mailto:Simpits-tech@simpits.org>=20
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
<http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech>=20
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above
page.  Thanks!
>=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple =
style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>

<div class=3DSection1>

I =
would echo
what Marv is saying here.=A0 A =
standard is
a tough route to go &#8211; I for our project know we have almost all =
the panel
wiring done now in the proto unit and I can just hear the yelling if I =
were to
ask the hardware guys to change it!! J=A0 =
We have
all the circuit diagrams, MRB allocation charts and wiring harness
fabrication/BoM lists made up and it would be far too much back-tracking =
to
pick up a new wiring scheme at this point.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Console";color:blue'>That =
said, I
think the EPIC programming is relatively straightforward.<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 </span>It&#8217;s no worse really than =
writing macro
scripts for TM Cougar or F22pro/TQS =
controllers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

In =
practice, I
think the way the new device syntax works in EPL, the most interesting =
part is
actually the logic code that makes the buttons and lamps and such do =
what they
need to do.=A0 The device =
structures just
assign procedural code to the particular wiring scheme (MRB =
assignments). =A0I think you could take someone =
else&#8217;s &#8220;logic&#8221;
code and match it up to your wiring by changing the MRB numbering in the =
device
structures pretty easily.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I =
think that&#8217;s
your fastest route if you don&#8217;t want to start from scratch with =
the EPL
coding.=A0 The fly in that =
ointment is that
people may choose to model switch/lamps etc to different levels.=A0 I know for example that we are =
modeling the
interactions between the ELEC panel and TEST panel with respect to the
functions the dash-1 describes for the FLCS test operations. =A0This is all outside of scope for =
Falcon4 game
code but EPIC makes it possible to program up the switches and lamps to =
work somewhat
like the actual jet anyway. =A0Others may
or may not choose to go to the same level of detail&#8230;and their EPL =
code
will vary accordingly.<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'>Mark.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Lucida =
Console"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida =
Console";color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
0in 4.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-admin@simpits.org] =
<b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Marv De Beque<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December =
26, 2002
12:45 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
simpits-tech@simpits.org<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[simpits-tech] To all
- what do you guys think</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

I agree. &nbsp;I wish you =
luck.
&nbsp; 
 
However, you might find programming is not so hard as you think. =
&nbsp;The
other thing that you should consider is no matter what your pin =
assignment you
can easily reconfigure the software to agree with it. &nbsp;It is not =
the pin
assignments that are your concern, but the functionality for each input =
type. 
 
That is, you can assign a function that handles the landing gear, which =
should
be two switches. &nbsp;There are actually three states to the F-16 gear.
&nbsp;UP, DOWN, and TRANSITIONING. &nbsp;You need two switches to =
capture those
states. &nbsp;It doesn&#8217;t really matter which inputs they are =
assigned to,
because you can redefine them in software very easily. 
 
Another function example is when the dogfight switch is engaged some =
buttons on
the ICP console are disabled. 
 
Lastly, every function must have some sort of output. &nbsp;This is =
where the
keystrokes for that function are passed to the PC so they can be =
processed in
&nbsp;the sim program. &nbsp;Sort of where the rubber meets the =
street. 
 
So, developing a function for each input type would be valuable. =
&nbsp;All you
need do is make sure that it can be easily redefined to the input(s) of =
your
choice. 
 
That would be a very worth while standard to do and my =
recommendation. 
 
Marv 
 
On 12/26/02 12:24 PM, &quot;Frank Riedel&quot; &lt;frank@rezultat.dk&gt; =
wrote:<o:p></o:p>

You got a point there Marv, but if we/I make a wiring
diagram for all the buttons and lamps in an F16 Block 50, 
then we mabe can find someone there is hardcore on EPIC to make the code =
for it
!... and then we 
place the file for download &quot;outthere&quot; and by that way we have =
maked
a &quot;standard&quot; for those to come ! 
 
&nbsp; 
Frank<o:p></o:p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DVerdana><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>----- Original Message =
----- <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Marv De Beque
&lt;mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com&gt; &nbsp;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
simpits-tech@simpits.org <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December =
26, 2002
3:22 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[simpits-tech] To all
- what do you guys think<br>
<br>
Had thought about that and actually discussed that with a few =
people.<br>
<br>
The idea has merit in that everybody has the same set up and we can =
share
knowledge and debugging tips.<br>
<br>
The reality is that it would take a lot of time to come to some =
agreement as to
what the standard should be. &nbsp;Look at the aircraft industry and you =
see
what I mean. &nbsp;ARINC standards are a good one, but they take years =
to come
to a delusion and then nobody follows them when they do because of =
unforeseen
needs.<br>
<br>
Now, I would think that we could come to an agreement faster than ARINC =
does on
a standard for EPIC. &nbsp;However, there are a number of us that =
already have
work invested in their own cockpits and the associated wiring. =
&nbsp;Even if we
reached an agreement, chances are everyone that already has stuffed =
wired up
would be violating the new standard. &nbsp;&nbsp;How many of those =
people do
you believe would rebuild their systems just to comply with a new =
standard?<br>
<br>
Personally, I think the best hope is to find one or two others that are =
at the
same development point as you are and hammer out a standard with input =
from
anyone else that is interested. &nbsp;<br>
<br>
Right now I am up to my eyeballs with alligators, so I don&#8217;t have =
the
time to invest in that part of the project. &nbsp;Otherwise, I would =
lend a
hand.<br>
<br>
Marv<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/26/02 4:03 AM, &quot;Frank Riedel&quot; &lt;frank@rezultat.dk&gt; =
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi all !<br>
</span></font><font face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Idea is to make a standard way to wireing the EPIC =
Input/Output-module<br>
to the panels and one EPIC-file by that way we have created a =
complet<br>
F16 pit - that all newbees can use, (inclued my self)<br>
</span></font><font face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>All the best<br>
Frank</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
face=3DVerdana><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>----- Original Message =
----- <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Marv De Beque
&lt;mailto:mdebeque@woh.rr.com&gt; &nbsp;<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
simpits-tech@simpits.org <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, December =
26, 2002
3:19 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[simpits-tech] To all
- what do you guys think<br>
<br>
Not sure what the &#8220;idea&#8221; is that you &nbsp;are asking =
about.<br>
<br>
On 12/25/02 7:10 PM, &quot;Frank Riedel&quot; &lt;frank@rezultat.dk&gt; =
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Is it a bad idea ???<br>
</span></font><font face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-family:Verdana'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Frank<br>
</span></font><font face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-family:Verdana'><br>
----- Original Message ----- </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

From: Frank Riedel
&lt;mailto:frank@rezultat.dk&gt; &nbsp; 
To: =
simpits-tech@simpits.org 
Sent: Monday, December =
23, 2002
10:52 AM 
Subject: [simpits-tech] =
To all -
what do you guys think 
 
Hi Martin &quot;Pegasus&quot; and all other that can help ! 
Now that we are close to the year 2003, and we all 
have make a fantastic work by collecting huge data about 
simulator and by that way help one and another... include my self 
I startet out collecting information and nowhow at January 2002 
and came out this year and have already make all panels with =
backlight 
and now in construction face of my &quot;pit&quot; by help from ALL you =
guys... 
THANKS ALOT ALL 
 
I just need to wireing up all the panels... but when i come to
programing i am 
a real &quot;NewBee&quot; and other upcomming pitters will came in same
situation, I 
was thinking off makeing a standard connection (wiering) of all the =
panels. 
I can make all the diagrams look here
http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wireing.htm
&lt;http://www.rezultat.dk/f16/full-wireing.htm&gt; (Not =
finished) 
Will any of you be able to program =
an
EPIC-file after this diagram ??? 
if so... i think we then will have all drawings and =
wiering-diagram
complet ! 
and do any of you have any changes and &quot;=B4hint&quot; to the =
diagram just
speak out ! ! ! 
 
Frank 
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: &quot;F16&quot; &lt;f16@xflight.de &lt;mailto:f16@xflight.de&gt; =
&gt; 
To: &lt;simpits-tech@simpits.org &lt;mailto:simpits-tech@simpits.org&gt; =
&gt; 
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 12:14 PM 
Subject: AW: [simpits-tech] Epic hardware 
 
&gt; Hi Frank, 
&gt; 
&gt; the 64BTN modul you can buy - I think - only in Europe by =
MicroCockpit. To
 
&gt; the 64BTN modul you must have an ABA modul. The 64BTN modul is for =
INPUT, 
&gt; the 32-point output modul is for OUTPUT. Here is a short =
description for 
&gt; the ABA-, 64BTN- and 32-point output modul (more see on my site =
 
&gt; (http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm
&lt;http://www.xflight.de/f16/pe_sim_com_epc.htm&gt; ): 
&gt; 
&gt; ABA modul: 
&gt; The ABA module is the heart of the system. You can connect up to 4 =
64BTN 
&gt; modules to it, as well as power 16 analog channels. This module is =
 
&gt; connected to the first expansion module by two flat cables. 
&gt; 
&gt; 64BTN modul: 
&gt; Up to 64 push-buttons or switches can be connected to this module. =
EPIC
can 
&gt; then identify each of them. As EPIC registers any change of each =
switch
and 
&gt; processes it separately, only one cable is required to power normal =
 
&gt; switches. The ABA can receive up to 4 64 BTN modules, which give =
you up to
 
&gt; 256 different controls to be powered. 
&gt; On one 64BTN modul you can connect and checked 64 buttons, switches =
and 
&gt; other digital INPUT parts. 
&gt; 
&gt; 32-point output modul: 
&gt; Using this module, which is connected to the First Expansion Module =
via 
&gt; EPIC-Bus, up to 32 digital output channels can be powered. That =
means,
that 
&gt; you can activate lights, electric motors and other devices. Each =
channel 
&gt; can handle 3 to 50V. Up to 4 Output Modules can be installed, =
giving you 
&gt; 128 channels to be used. On one output modul you can steer up to 32 =
LED, 
&gt; lamps or engines. This module is for the OUTPUT. 
&gt; 
&gt; I hope it is helpful for you. 
&gt; Martin &quot;Pegasus&quot; 
&gt; 
&gt; 
&gt; _______________________________________________ 
&gt; Simpits-tech mailing list 
&gt; Simpits-tech@simpits.org &lt;mailto:Simpits-tech@simpits.org&gt; =
 
&gt; =
http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
&lt;http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech&gt; 
&gt; To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of =
the
above page. &nbsp;Thanks! 
&gt; <o:p></o:p>

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