From Dr.Kasten at t-online.de Wed Dec 1 14:56:53 2010 From: Dr.Kasten at t-online.de (M.Kasten) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 22:56:53 -0000 Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems Message-ID: <1PNvbU-1qOtW40@fwd09.aul.t-online.de> Dear members, can anybody tell me something about the licence state of the Digital Research operating systems (CP/M, MP/M, Concurrent DOS, Multiuser DOS, FlexOS, Multiuser DOS, DR DOS) ? It`s a little bit confusing, on the one side you can download DR DOS 7 for free, on the other side you have to pay at DRDOS.org. What?s the difference between XM/GEM and GEM/XM ? Thank?s for your answers, Michael Kasten Dr.Kasten at t-online.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/gem-dev/attachments/20101201/384f92ad/attachment.html From jce at seasip.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 15:13:37 2010 From: jce at seasip.demon.co.uk (John Elliott) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:13:37 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems In-Reply-To: <1PNvbU-1qOtW40@fwd09.aul.t-online.de> from "M.Kasten" at Dec 01, 2010 10:56:00 pm GMT Message-ID: > can anybody tell me something about the licence state of the Digital > Research operating systems (CP/M, MP/M, Concurrent DOS, Multiuser DOS, > FlexOS, Multiuser DOS, DR DOS) ? > It`s a little bit confusing, on the one side you can download DR DOS 7 > for free, on the other side you have to pay at DRDOS.org. > What=B4s the difference between XM/GEM and GEM/XM ? CP/M and MP/M are pretty much open source, though the licence is only granted to the Unofficial CP/M Web Site and its "maintainers, developers and community": The single-tasking DOS line (DRDOS) is owned by DRDOS Inc. , and I think the multi-tasking line (Concurrent DOS, Multiuser DOS) ended up with IMS as REAL/32. However, there was one source release of the DRDOS 7 kernel under a semi-open licence, and that's been developed as Enhanced DRDOS. On the borderline of the above two is DOS Plus, because it's a DOS product, but it's built on a CP/M kernel that's identical with Personal CP/M-86 v2.0. From what I've heard, FlexOS became IBM's 4690 Operating System and presumably would be sold by IBM. Any bits of GEM with Digital Research copyright messages are available under the GPL, though there are some third-party drivers which I don't think are covered by it. GEM/XM is a version of GEM that can multitask DOS applications, that forked off from GEM proper somewhere between GEM/2 and GEM/3. XM/GEM I haven't seen, but there were vague rumours about versions of GEM that ran on UNIX or OS/2 rather than DOS, and it's possible that refers to one of them. -- John Elliott From Dr.Kasten at t-online.de Thu Dec 2 02:41:58 2010 From: Dr.Kasten at t-online.de (M.Kasten) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:41:58 -0000 Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems Message-ID: <1PO6bh-0YDUJs0@fwd05.aul.t-online.de> Dear Mr.Elliot, many thanks for your quick answers. Sometimes it?s difficult to make older software downloadable without getting licence conflicts. I read that GEM/XM runs under FlexOS (32bit) and recommended compiler is High C (32bit). Have you heared something about the special programmers toolkit for GEM/XM under FlexOS ? Best regards, Michael Kasten Dr.Kasten at t-online.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/gem-dev/attachments/20101202/c8b27bca/attachment.html From ben at jemmett.me.uk Thu Dec 2 06:46:59 2010 From: ben at jemmett.me.uk (Ben A L Jemmett) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 14:46:59 -0000 Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems In-Reply-To: References: <1PNvbU-1qOtW40@fwd09.aul.t-online.de> from "M.Kasten" at Dec 01, 2010 10:56:00 pm GMT Message-ID: <766ED33D389444558A203557B7D8024E@JSD.jemmettsoftware.co.uk> [Let's see if this gets through this time -- after 14 years I've had to change my e-mail address, argh!] > GEM/XM is a version of GEM that can multitask DOS applications, that > forked off from GEM proper somewhere between GEM/2 and GEM/3. XM/GEM I > haven't seen, but there were vague rumours about versions of GEM that > ran on UNIX or > OS/2 rather than DOS, and it's possible that refers to one of them. XM/GEM doesn't ring any bells (the /XM suffix was used on several products -- to signify "Expanded Memory" perhaps? -- but I've never seen it used as a prefix). However, there are references in the wild to X/GEM, which apparently ran under FlexOS. I'm not sure how it differed from the GEM we know -- FlexOS was a protected-mode OS I think so maybe X/GEM supports marshalling between address spaces? (Just a guess!) http://www.abakion.de/flexos.htm seems to describe FlexOS's lineage and mentions X/GEM as a subsystem. A bit of digging turned up http://www.faqs.org/copyright/multiuser-dos-dr-net-system-builders-kit-relea se-212/ -- I'm not quite sure how to interpret it, but it lists "X/GEM for FlexOS, release 1.0" as a separate entity from "FlexOS 286" and "FlexOS 386". Perhaps that means it was sold separately, or maybe just that it came with its own manual/disk set/etc. http://www.abakion.de/Download/download.html has a screenshot of XBENCH - "X/GEM Benchmarks" -- my schoolboy German is too rusty to judge whether any of the links on that page lead to interesting information about X/GEM itself, but that should not pose much problem for Dr. Kasten! One presumes that IBM don't include X/GEM in the current 4690 OS! It would be highly amusing to be wrong, though. Regards, Ben A L Jemmett. http://flatpack.microwavepizza.co.uk/ From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 13:16:24 2010 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 13:16:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems Message-ID: <567870.82021.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear ALL: While poking around eBay, I came across an offering of DR-DOS 6 just BEFORE this exchange of letters began. e-Bay Item number: 180411515722 " FULL DR-DOS 6.0 -- Full 3 Disk Set -- DRDOS ***NEW*** # Latest revised DR-DOS 6.0 on 3.5-inch 1.44MB media. # Includes the full two diskette set: * Disk 1 - Install * Disk 2 - ViewMax # Plus an additional disk containing low-level source code files (not part of the standard distribution): * Disk 3 - DRBIOS & SKELBIOS # We were licensed directly by Digital Research to distribute DR-DOS. # Digital Research embedded and compiled our name into the bootup display to prove our ownership of distribution rights (please see above photo of bootup display). Note: Our name appearing in the initial bootup message is the ONLY difference between our software and the generic software. # View the release notes HERE. http://208.109.247.6/st/files/drdos6_readme.txt # Printed manuals are not included. # Also available on 5-1/4 inch 1.2MB media - please see our other listings. " [In the two diskette set "auction", there is this note:] " Note: If you wish to receive the 3-disk set which includes an optional third disk containing DRBIOS and SKELBIOS low-level source code files, please see our other auctions. The third disk is not part of the standard DR-DOS distribution and was generally distributed only to OEMs and product developers. It is of primary interest to those wishing to make modifications to or understand the workings of the BIOS portion of the O/S, or to those wishing to create low-level drivers. " There exists, both, 3.5in and 5.25in three(3)-diskette sets AND some two(2)-diskette 3.5in(?) sets. Twenty to thirty, in all. Oh. - and less then (<) 10$ a-piece(@). Sincerely, Thomas Clayton --- On Wed, 12/1/10, M.Kasten wrote: From: M.Kasten Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems To: gem-dev at simpits.org Date: Wednesday, December 1, 2010, 4:56 PM Dear members, can anybody tell me something about the licence state of the Digital Research operating systems (CP/M, MP/M, Concurrent DOS, Multiuser DOS, FlexOS, Multiuser DOS, DR DOS) ? It`s a little bit confusing, on the one side you can download DR DOS 7 for free, on the other side you have to pay at DRDOS.org. What?s the difference between XM/GEM and GEM/XM ? Thank?s for your answers, Michael Kasten Dr.Kasten at t-online.de From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Dec 3 13:14:53 2010 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 13:14:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems In-Reply-To: <567870.82021.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <567870.82021.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2010, Thomas Clayton wrote: > Dear ALL: > > While poking around eBay, I came across an offering of DR-DOS 6 just > BEFORE this exchange of letters began. Interesting. I might buy a set for giggles if I can get the manuals cheaply enough. I wonder if I should build my own custom distro? (I've got _everything_, source code, tool chains, etc) *laughs* g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From Dr.Kasten at t-online.de Fri Dec 3 14:29:07 2010 From: Dr.Kasten at t-online.de (M.Kasten) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 22:29:07 -0000 Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems Message-ID: <1POe7i-0ccGps0@fwd02.aul.t-online.de> Dear members, an aditional question: Falls GEM/4 and /5 also under the GPL ? >From ebay i have owned a version of DRI Presentation Team 2.0 (including a full set of manuals). If not license restricted i can bring it up for a dowload page. Bets regards, Michael Kasten Dr.Kasten at t-online.de -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/gem-dev/attachments/20101203/75f1aba3/attachment-0001.html From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 16:05:50 2010 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 16:05:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <463217.59798.qm@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Gene: Do you have (/ were they released) : the source code for SYS.COM, FORMAT.COM, and ?CHKDSK.EXE? . (I can't remember which was the third 'piece' that I considered ESSENTIAL for a Disk OpSys.) Back in the day, when I was arguing with James Forney(?) about this - he had written one of his books and said something to the effect that one "really only needed" IBMBIO.COM, IBMDOS.COM, and COMMAND.COM - I disagreed and wrote him that, at least, three others were needed. It could be that I'm MIS-remembering the first one that I listed (sys.com) - BUT one needs SOME way to get the OpSys to YOUR own disk(ette). Format and Chkdsk are needed for the file system, itself. (There were - and ARE - alternatives to FDISK - of which I like "part.exe", the best. DR-DOS's FDISK, also, DID formatting.) MY APOLOGIES for the run-on sentences! ;-) While on the subject of re-compilation :-0 How about a 15dot4 naming convention with-in the same 32-byte FAT entry? - - Fifteen 'cause I'd read about NetBIOS naming conventions. (Just something that has been "rattling around" in my brain for "ages"!) Sincerely, Thomas Clayton BTW, IF for GEOS, THEN "we" would HAVE TO break the 32-Char per FAT entry. SINCE GEOS uses 32 char.s for JUST its files' names and I don't (yet) know WHAT for "extensions". (<- Note: that word is a PLURAL! 32dot?dot?dot?) --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Gene Buckle wrote: > From: Gene Buckle > Subject: Re: [GEM Development] DR operating systems > To: "GEM Development" > Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 3:14 PM > On Fri, 3 Dec 2010, Thomas Clayton > wrote: > > > Dear ALL: > > > > While poking around eBay, I came across an offering of > DR-DOS 6 just > > BEFORE this exchange of letters began. > > Interesting.? I might buy a set for giggles if I can > get the manuals > cheaply enough.? I wonder if I should build my own > custom distro?? (I've > got _everything_, source code, tool chains, etc) *laughs* > > g. > > > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project > > ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment > A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. > http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! > > Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a > delusional, illogical > minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous > mainstream media, which > holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to > pick up a turd > by the clean end. > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 16:07:11 2010 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 16:07:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems Message-ID: <168542.78468.qm@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Michael: AFAIK: GEM/4, GEM /5 are. As long as it IS: DRi _and_ GEM, I believe the answer _is_: yes. As a counter-example: GST Publisher ?3 would NOT be under GNU Pub Lic even though (the GEM "run-time") _parts_ were derived from DRi GEM. Same with Xerox Ventura Publisher "for DOS". These are _not_ F, OS, Sw. Thomas Clayton --- On Fri, 12/3/10, M.Kasten wrote: From: M.Kasten Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems To: gem-dev at simpits.org Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 4:29 PM Dear members, an ad[d]itional question: Falls GEM/4 and /5 also under the GPL ? >From ebay i have owned a version of DRI Presentation Team 2.0 (including a full set of manuals). If not license restricted i can bring it up for a dow[n]load page. Be[st] regards, Michael Kasten Dr.Kasten at t-online.de From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Dec 3 17:46:30 2010 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 17:46:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GEM Development] DR operating systems In-Reply-To: <463217.59798.qm@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <463217.59798.qm@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 2010, Thomas Clayton wrote: > Gene: > > Do you have (/ were they released) : the source code for > SYS.COM, FORMAT.COM, and ?CHKDSK.EXE? . > Yes I do, no they weren't and no, I can't. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. From sasmekoll at gmail.com Sun Dec 12 18:38:23 2010 From: sasmekoll at gmail.com (Vovan) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 05:38:23 +0300 Subject: [GEM Development] =?utf-8?b?0J3QvtCy0L7QtSDRgdC+0L7QsdGJ0LXQvdC4?= =?utf-8?b?0LU=?= Message-ID: <4d065265.5989cc0a.62fc.191d@mx.google.com> http://samec.org.ua/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/gem-dev/attachments/20101213/2eb6b7dc/attachment.html From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 13 11:19:46 2010 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 11:19:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [GEM Development] =?koi8-r?b?7s/Xz8Ug08/Pwt3FzsnF?= In-Reply-To: <4d065265.5989cc0a.62fc.191d@mx.google.com> References: <4d065265.5989cc0a.62fc.191d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Vovan wrote: > http://samec.org.ua/ > Spammer killed. Don't click that link! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.