From rtdos at aol.com Tue Mar 24 16:42:36 2009 From: rtdos at aol.com (proteanthread) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 17:42:36 -0600 Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) Message-ID: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> This list still active? Woodzy http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos From blairdude at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 16:43:45 2009 From: blairdude at gmail.com (Blair Campbell) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:43:45 -0700 Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> References: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> Message-ID: <7705c9030903241643h4d59ef94ib6fa1b423c3b8c89@mail.gmail.com> hello 2009/3/24 proteanthread : > This list still active? > > > Woodzy > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > From sariatv at gmail.com Tue Mar 24 16:56:07 2009 From: sariatv at gmail.com (James Stafford) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 23:56:07 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <7705c9030903241643h4d59ef94ib6fa1b423c3b8c89@mail.gmail.com> References: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> <7705c9030903241643h4d59ef94ib6fa1b423c3b8c89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <930647ef0903241656n399aa7aam7cdff45e85996acc@mail.gmail.com> Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was wondering if there was any activity either, it seems there is. Anyway, hello GEM Development mailing list :) 2009/3/24 Blair Campbell > hello > > 2009/3/24 proteanthread : > > This list still active? > > > > > > Woodzy > > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com > > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos > > _______________________________________________ > > gem-dev mailing list > > gem-dev at simpits.org > > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > -- Telephone: 07938 769809 sariatv at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/gem-dev/attachments/20090324/c2c7a595/attachment.html From owen at owenrudge.net Tue Mar 24 17:40:12 2009 From: owen at owenrudge.net (Owen Rudge) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:40:12 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <930647ef0903241656n399aa7aam7cdff45e85996acc@mail.gmail.com> References: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> <7705c9030903241643h4d59ef94ib6fa1b423c3b8c89@mail.gmail.com> <930647ef0903241656n399aa7aam7cdff45e85996acc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49C97D6C.8090005@owenrudge.net> > Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was wondering if there was any > activity either, it seems there is. There are occasional discussions, but little actual work gets done on GEM these days, alas. Cheers, -- Owen Rudge http://www.owenrudge.net/ From jem at archivalladolid.org Tue Mar 24 19:02:54 2009 From: jem at archivalladolid.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Emilio_Mori_Recio?=) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 03:02:54 +0100 Subject: [GEM Development] GEM activity, and waiting for the wiki... Message-ID: <20090325020401.A38FEC901A3@ns2.simpits.org> Hello and welcome... Actually I think several people here keep some interest. As long as FreeDOS is (very) active, I think GEM, as its main graphical environment, can still go on. As of me, I'm still waiting for the unlock and transformation of the secondary GEM Wiki into the primary one, in order to begin updating it and maybe making it the center of new developments, as it seems Shane and others have ceased them. Everyone is invited to comment and give ideas. Owen, nice to read from you. If you're reading this... I'm still here and waiting since January. Weekly or so, I try to create an account in the wiki, obviously with no success to date. I hope you can make the unlock soon. As I've said several times, if you have no time to do it, I could try to help you remotely with any server, MySQL or MediaWiki problems. Waiting for news... Best regards, // Jos? Emilio Mori Recio - http://www.gui.uva.es/~jem \\ || Administrador Inform?tico, Arzobispado de Valladolid y Archivo || \\ Miembro 088 del Grupo Universitario de Inform?tica, Valladolid // From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Mar 24 20:46:23 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:46:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> References: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, proteanthread wrote: > This list still active? > I suppose that depends on your definition of "active". :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. OpenQM - A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://gpl.openqm.com - Get it _today_! From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 00:31:13 2009 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] Welcome! In-Reply-To: <930647ef0903241656n399aa7aam7cdff45e85996acc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <783007.30727.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Welcome James! Have you been to any / many of the GEM related websites? There are binary ('runnable') and source files (text, generally in "C", that get "compiled" into the former) available for most all of GEM at them. Oh, and, BTW, I've been searching for /DR-GEM Scan/ (general edition). Would YOU happen to have a copy of it? Do you have copies of any GEM 'stuff', now? Were you the person who 'won' the recent auction on e-Bay for a five app set of GEM software? Thomas Clayton --- On Tue, 3/24/09, James Stafford wrote: > From: James Stafford > Subject: Re: [GEM Development] (no subject) > To: "GEM Development" > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 6:56 PM > Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was wondering if > there was any > activity either, it seems there is. > Anyway, hello GEM Development mailing list :) > > 2009/3/24 Blair Campbell > > > hello > > > > 2009/3/24 proteanthread : > > > This list still active? > > > > > > > > > Woodzy > > > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com > > > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos > -- > Telephone: 07938 769809 > sariatv at gmail.com From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 00:34:40 2009 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> Message-ID: <662977.66875.qm@web82303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just checked: I've still got a pulse! ;-) I /think/ a /few/ of the others still do, also. Thomas Clayton --- On Tue, 3/24/09, proteanthread wrote: > From: proteanthread > Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) > To: gem-dev at simpits.org > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 6:42 PM > This list still active? > > > Woodzy > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 00:46:13 2009 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 00:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39633.84530.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Gene: I just looked this up. > OpenQM - A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the > classes. > http://gpl.openqm.com - Get it _today_! I'm still curious. What is meant by "Multi-Value database"? Still wondering AFTER reading several pages about it. Do they mean Multi-Relational? Sincerely, Thomas Clayton --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Gene Buckle wrote: > From: Gene Buckle > Subject: Re: [GEM Development] (no subject) > To: "GEM Development" > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 10:46 PM > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, proteanthread wrote: > > > This list still active? > > > I suppose that depends on your definition of > "active". :) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 01:03:56 2009 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:03:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <800575.4403.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I found this (finally) while looking up the UniVerse link: " IBM? UniVerse? is an extended relational data server optimized for embedding in vertical applications. UniVerse 10.3 Empowering Development. Learn more. IBM UniVerse offers a nested relational (MultiValue) data model which means intuitive data modeling and fewer resulting tables. UniVerse V10.3 adds powerful development capabilities to the solid extended relational database. " I happen to like (a lot!) Borland Corp's /Reflex/ uni-relational (flat-file) Info Manager ("DataBase"). BTW, I should have re-titled the subject line in my previous letter. Thomas Clayton --- On Tue, 3/24/09, Gene Buckle wrote: > From: Gene Buckle > Subject: Re: [GEM Development] (no subject) > To: "GEM Development" > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 10:46 PM > On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, proteanthread wrote: > > > This list still active? > > > I suppose that depends on your definition of > "active". :) > > g. > > -- > Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 > http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. > > OpenQM - A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the > classes. > http://gpl.openqm.com - Get it _today_! From rob at midworld.co.uk Wed Mar 25 01:22:26 2009 From: rob at midworld.co.uk (rob at midworld.co.uk) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:22:26 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <49C97D6C.8090005@owenrudge.net> References: <8548674BF1BB4B2397B9612E15F2D704@HP7570> <7705c9030903241643h4d59ef94ib6fa1b423c3b8c89@mail.gmail.com> <930647ef0903241656n399aa7aam7cdff45e85996acc@mail.gmail.com> <49C97D6C.8090005@owenrudge.net> Message-ID: <20090325082226.GO29092@meurglys.midworld.co.uk> I'm still about, but real-life stuff means I don't code much for fun at all these days :-( Trying to get back into the swing of it, but at the end of the day now all I want to do is to get as far away from computers as possible ;-) Would be nice to get some discussion going though. Take care, Rob On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 12:40:12AM +0000, Owen Rudge wrote: > > Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was wondering if there was any > > activity either, it seems there is. > > There are occasional discussions, but little actual work gets done on > GEM these days, alas. > > Cheers, > > -- > Owen Rudge > http://www.owenrudge.net/ > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 25 06:58:27 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <39633.84530.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <39633.84530.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Thomas Clayton wrote: > > Gene: > > I just looked this up. >> OpenQM - A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the >> classes. >> http://gpl.openqm.com - Get it _today_! > > I'm still curious. What is meant by "Multi-Value database"? > Still wondering AFTER reading several pages about it. > Do they mean Multi-Relational? > Thomas, I think your best bet would be to read the introduction in this doc: http://www.rushflat.co.nz/files/GSOpenQM-1.zip Brian does a much better job than I could is explaining Multi-Value databases. Understand that the guide he wrote hardly refers at all to the GPL version of OpenQM (which is a shame, but there you go), but everything in it applies to the GPL version of OpenQM. I use a Multi-Value system called Pick D3 at work and I've been a huge fan of MV since '86 when I was first introduced to it. SQL databases are more organizationally complex (to me) than MVDBs are. For example, a product that was looked at to replace my ERP system required over 20 tables to describe an order. My system does it in 2 "files". (one for order headers, one for order lines) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. OpenQM - A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://gpl.openqm.com - Get it _today_! From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Mar 25 07:01:22 2009 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <800575.4403.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <800575.4403.qm@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Thomas Clayton wrote: > I found this (finally) while looking up the UniVerse link: > > " > IBM? UniVerse? is an extended relational data server optimized for embedding in vertical applications. > UniVerse 10.3 Empowering Development. Learn more. > > IBM UniVerse offers a nested relational (MultiValue) data model which means intuitive data modeling and fewer resulting tables. UniVerse V10.3 adds powerful development capabilities to the solid extended relational database. > " > I happen to like (a lot!) Borland Corp's /Reflex/ uni-relational (flat-file) Info Manager ("DataBase"). > That's funny. I used UniVerse 6.3 at my last job. That was long before IBM bought them. It was running on a Sun Sparc 10. We had that poor machine working its ass off 24/7 - we did freight bill auditing & payment. We got a box of 9 track tapes from FedEx every week that had to be loaded as well as tapes from a number of other carriers. Fun times. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. OpenQM - A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://gpl.openqm.com - Get it _today_! From sariatv at gmail.com Wed Mar 25 10:12:17 2009 From: sariatv at gmail.com (James Stafford) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:12:17 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] Welcome! In-Reply-To: <783007.30727.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <930647ef0903241656n399aa7aam7cdff45e85996acc@mail.gmail.com> <783007.30727.qm@web82302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <930647ef0903251012r6d7b3bf3q6fc3c5957efc7435@mail.gmail.com> Hello Thomas, Thank you for the warm welcome :P I have been to all he links available on the OpenGEM website, but only to browse, really. I don't have a copy of DR-GEM Scan, sadly, however I have "connections" which can "locate" it, if you know what I mean, I'll have a look tonight on the servers and see what's up on there. I know that they have GEM stuff, at least. No, I didn't win the eBay auction. I've only just seen the post regarding it, so I'm afraid I'm no help here. The only GEM stuff I have currently is the OpenGEM 5 distro and the SDK, but the SDK is very confusing for me. I mainly stick to Mac development, but the reason I'm into GEM is because it was used on the Atari ST, which is a computer I love (even though the most use it has seen is to write history essays and play really awful games). Thanks for the email! >From James (PS: what was up for auction?) On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Thomas Clayton wrote: > > Welcome James! > > Have you been to any / many of the GEM related websites? > There are binary ('runnable') and source files (text, generally in "C", that get "compiled" into the former) available for most all of GEM at them. > > Oh, and, BTW, I've been searching for /DR-GEM Scan/ (general edition). Would YOU happen to have a copy of it? > > Do you have copies of any GEM 'stuff', now? Were you the person who 'won' the recent auction on e-Bay for a five app set of GEM software? > > Thomas Clayton > > > > > --- On Tue, 3/24/09, James Stafford wrote: > >> From: James Stafford >> Subject: Re: [GEM Development] (no subject) >> To: "GEM Development" >> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 6:56 PM > >> Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was wondering if >> there was any >> activity either, it seems there is. >> Anyway, hello GEM Development mailing list :) >> >> 2009/3/24 Blair Campbell >> >> > hello >> > >> > 2009/3/24 proteanthread : >> > > This list still active? >> > > >> > > >> > > Woodzy > >> > > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com >> > > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos >> -- >> Telephone: 07938 769809 >> sariatv at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > -- Telephone: 07938 769809 sariatv at gmail.com From owen at owenrudge.net Wed Mar 25 15:10:16 2009 From: owen at owenrudge.net (Owen Rudge) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:10:16 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] GEM activity, and waiting for the wiki... In-Reply-To: <20090325020401.A38FEC901A3@ns2.simpits.org> References: <20090325020401.A38FEC901A3@ns2.simpits.org> Message-ID: <49CAABC8.3090601@owenrudge.net> Hi Jos?, > Owen, nice to read from you. If you're reading this... I'm still here and > waiting since January. Weekly or so, I try to create an account in the wiki, > obviously with no success to date. I hope you can make the unlock soon. As > I've said several times, if you have no time to do it, I could try to help > you remotely with any server, MySQL or MediaWiki problems. Hmm, I just had a quick look at it now, but came across an unexpected error when trying to create a new admin user. I'll look into it more when I can - should be able to get it sorted hopefully. Sorry for the delay! Cheers, -- Owen Rudge http://www.owenrudge.net/ From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Wed Mar 25 22:38:05 2009 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] Welcome! In-Reply-To: <930647ef0903251012r6d7b3bf3q6fc3c5957efc7435@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <987733.40883.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> James, Do - DO - search out "Scan". HIGHLY unlikely you'll find anyone in "your circle of friends" who has it ... but one never knows, unless one asks. IF the item they have is "DR" and "GEM", then it is (now) legitimate to 'hand it around'. I've got a friend who runs / owns a computer / electronicS recyclery. He recently received an ?Atari 1024? (?Amiga 1024?) for disposal. I /think/ both yours and this one have Motorola 68K-type CPUs. Is it any relation to your "ST"? Do you have an interest in having it? It's in Chicago, IL area so postage could be PROHIBITIVE :-( Anyone else? Before it is gone GONE! Sincerely, Thomas Clayton --- On Wed, 3/25/09, James Stafford wrote: > From: James Stafford > Subject: Re: [GEM Development] Welcome! > To: "GEM Development" > Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:12 PM > Hello Thomas, > > Thank you for the warm welcome :P I have been to all he > links > available on the OpenGEM website, but only to browse, > really. I don't > have a copy of DR-GEM Scan, sadly, however I have > "connections" which > can "locate" it, if you know what I mean, > I'll have a look tonight on > the servers and see what's up on there. I know that > they have GEM > stuff, at least. > > No, I didn't win the eBay auction. I've only just > seen the post > regarding it, so I'm afraid I'm no help here. The > only GEM stuff I > have currently is the OpenGEM 5 distro and the SDK, but the > SDK is > very confusing for me. I mainly stick to Mac development, > but the > reason I'm into GEM is because it was used on the Atari > ST, which is a > computer I love (even though the most use it has seen is to > write > history essays and play really awful games). > > Thanks for the email! > >From James > > (PS: what was up for auction?) > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Thomas Clayton > wrote: > > > > Welcome James! > > > > Have you been to any / many of the GEM related > websites? > > There are binary ('runnable') and source files > (text, generally in "C", that get > "compiled" into the former) available for most all > of GEM at them. > > > > Oh, and, BTW, I've been searching for /DR-GEM > Scan/ (general edition). Would YOU happen to have a copy of > it? > > > > Do you have copies of any GEM 'stuff', now? > Were you the person who 'won' the recent auction on > e-Bay for a five app set of GEM software? > > > > Thomas Clayton > > > > > > > > > > --- On Tue, 3/24/09, James Stafford > wrote: > > > >> From: James Stafford > >> Subject: Re: [GEM Development] (no subject) > >> To: "GEM Development" > > >> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 6:56 PM > > > >> Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was > wondering if > >> there was any > >> activity either, it seems there is. > >> Anyway, hello GEM Development mailing list :) > >> > >> 2009/3/24 Blair Campbell > > >> > >> > hello > >> > > >> > 2009/3/24 proteanthread > : > >> > > This list still active? > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Woodzy > > > >> > > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com > >> > > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos > >> -- > >> Telephone: 07938 769809 > >> sariatv at gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > gem-dev mailing list > > gem-dev at simpits.org > > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > > > > > > -- > Telephone: 07938 769809 > sariatv at gmail.com > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev From sariatv at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 04:05:53 2009 From: sariatv at gmail.com (James Stafford) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:05:53 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] Welcome! In-Reply-To: <987733.40883.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <930647ef0903251012r6d7b3bf3q6fc3c5957efc7435@mail.gmail.com> <987733.40883.qm@web82304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <930647ef0903260405n355f6f41x8ddad139ef5d0af1@mail.gmail.com> Hey Tom, I checked the servers, I didn't find much. There is a small pocket of GEM 3 and below files and a few applications, but nothing with Scan in it's title. There's a few wierd cryptic filenames I can't make sense of (like 'gem-pkc') Yeah, Atari ST models are organised by the amount of RAM they have in them. A 520 would hold 520kb, 1024 about a meg (although they were released as Atari 1040) etc... The Amiga and Atari both share the 68k processor architecture because the Amiga was in direct competition with the Mac and the Atari was in direct competition with the Amiga... I'd be interested, but I don't live in the United States. >From James On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Thomas Clayton wrote: > > James, > > Do - DO - search out "Scan". HIGHLY unlikely you'll find anyone in "your circle of friends" who has it ?... but one never knows, unless one asks. > IF the item they have is "DR" and "GEM", then it is (now) legitimate to 'hand it around'. > > I've got a friend who runs / owns a computer / electronicS recyclery. He recently received an ?Atari 1024? (?Amiga 1024?) for disposal. ?I /think/ both yours and this one have Motorola 68K-type CPUs. Is it any relation to your "ST"? > > Do you have an interest in having it? It's in Chicago, IL area so postage could be PROHIBITIVE :-( ?Anyone else? Before it is gone GONE! > > > Sincerely, > > Thomas Clayton > > > > > --- On Wed, 3/25/09, James Stafford wrote: > >> From: James Stafford >> Subject: Re: [GEM Development] Welcome! >> To: "GEM Development" >> Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2009, 12:12 PM >> Hello Thomas, >> >> Thank you for the warm welcome :P I have been to all he >> links >> available on the OpenGEM website, but only to browse, >> really. I don't >> have a copy of DR-GEM Scan, sadly, however I have >> "connections" which >> can "locate" it, if you know what I mean, >> I'll have a look tonight on >> the servers and see what's up on there. I know that >> they have GEM >> stuff, at least. >> >> No, I didn't win the eBay auction. I've only just >> seen the post >> regarding it, so I'm afraid I'm no help here. The >> only GEM stuff I >> have currently is the OpenGEM 5 distro and the SDK, but the >> SDK is >> very confusing for me. I mainly stick to Mac development, >> but the >> reason I'm into GEM is because it was used on the Atari >> ST, which is a >> computer I love (even though the most use it has seen is to >> write >> history essays and play really awful games). >> >> Thanks for the email! >> >From James >> >> (PS: what was up for auction?) >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Thomas Clayton >> wrote: >> > >> > Welcome James! >> > >> > Have you been to any / many of the GEM related >> websites? >> > There are binary ('runnable') and source files >> (text, generally in "C", that get >> "compiled" into the former) available for most all >> of GEM at them. >> > >> > Oh, and, BTW, I've been searching for /DR-GEM >> Scan/ (general edition). Would YOU happen to have a copy of >> it? >> > >> > Do you have copies of any GEM 'stuff', now? >> Were you the person who 'won' the recent auction on >> e-Bay for a five app set of GEM software? >> > >> > Thomas Clayton >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Tue, 3/24/09, James Stafford >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: James Stafford >> >> Subject: Re: [GEM Development] (no subject) >> >> To: "GEM Development" >> >> >> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009, 6:56 PM >> > >> >> Hello. I'm, like, kind of new here. I was >> wondering if >> >> there was any >> >> activity either, it seems there is. >> >> Anyway, hello GEM Development mailing list :) >> >> >> >> 2009/3/24 Blair Campbell >> >> >> >> >> > hello >> >> > >> >> > 2009/3/24 proteanthread >> : >> >> > > This list still active? >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Woodzy >> > >> >> > > http://rtdos.communitytoolbars.com >> >> > > http://rollyo.com/proteanthread/rtdos >> >> -- >> >> Telephone: 07938 769809 >> >> sariatv at gmail.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > gem-dev mailing list >> > gem-dev at simpits.org >> > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Telephone: 07938 769809 >> sariatv at gmail.com >> _______________________________________________ >> gem-dev mailing list >> gem-dev at simpits.org >> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev > -- Telephone: 07938 769809 sariatv at gmail.com From goughsw at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 06:55:01 2009 From: goughsw at gmail.com (Shane Gough) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:55:01 +1000 Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) Message-ID: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> I'm glad there is some activity on the list at the moment, it gives me the chance to take a quick poll :) If you have the time would you please answer the following questions (section 1 is general, section 2 is specific to developers) and email back (to me personally if you don't want to bombard the list). Section 1 - General Questions 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If No go to 1.2 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR GEM/3, Atari GEM) 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a free-ware or open source license) 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, from other developers, from google? 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 1.2.1 - Why? 1.2.2 - What is stopping you from changing to another OS and UI ? 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 1.3.1 - Why? 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you think of GEM. Section 2 - Specific Questions 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES operations available? 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for VDI function #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names available even if different names were defined? 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development available? 2.2.1 - If so, what languages (and compilers) are they available for? 2.2.2 - Do you think they are important for developing GEM applications? 2.2.3 - What languages (and compilers) would you like to see them for? 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for Linux that use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on any external device with the appropriate client program. Would this be useful for you? Thanks in advance :) Regards, Shane From topcatdrc at yahoo.com Thu Mar 26 08:11:45 2009 From: topcatdrc at yahoo.com (Thomas Clayton) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:11:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <500323.1136.qm@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow. --- On Thu, 3/26/09, Shane Gough wrote: > From: Shane Gough > Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) > To: "GEM Development" > Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009, 8:55 AM > I'm glad there is some activity on the list at the > moment, it gives me > the chance to take a quick poll :) > > If you have the time would you please answer the following > questions > (section 1 is general, section 2 is specific to developers) > and email > back (to me personally if you don't want to bombard the > list). > > Section 1 - General Questions > > 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any > version)? If > No go to 1.2 > > 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: > OpenGEM, DR > GEM/3, Atari GEM) > > 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? > > 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - > released under a > free-ware or open source license) > > 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools > you use, > from other developers, from google? > > 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 > > 1.2.1 - Why? > > 1.2.2 - What is stopping you from changing to another OS > and UI ? > > 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 > > 1.3.1 - Why? > > 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if > you could? > > 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you > think of GEM. > > Section 2 - Specific Questions > > 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES > operations available? > > 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for > VDI function > #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? > > 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names > available even if > different names were defined? > > 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development > available? > > 2.2.1 - If so, what languages (and compilers) are they > available for? > > 2.2.2 - Do you think they are important for developing GEM > applications? > > 2.2.3 - What languages (and compilers) would you like to > see them for? > > 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for > Linux that > use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on > any external > device with the appropriate client program. Would this be > useful for > you? > > Thanks in advance :) > > Regards, > Shane > _______________________________________________ > gem-dev mailing list > gem-dev at simpits.org > http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev From olivier.landemarre at utbm.fr Thu Mar 26 08:42:19 2009 From: olivier.landemarre at utbm.fr (Olivier Landemarre) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:42:19 +0100 Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49CBA25B.6060905@utbm.fr> Hello > I'm glad there is some activity on the list at the moment, it gives me > the chance to take a quick poll :) > > If you have the time would you please answer the following questions > (section 1 is general, section 2 is specific to developers) and email > back (to me personally if you don't want to bombard the list). > > Section 1 - General Questions > > 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If > No go to 1.2 > Yes > 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR > GEM/3, Atari GEM) > Atari GEM > 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? > GCC 4 cross compiler, GCC 2.95.3 native compiler, PureC, Interface, Qed > 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a > free-ware or open source license) > Except PureC and Interface, yes > 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, > from other developers, from google? > Atari compendium http://arnaud.bercegeay.free.fr/gemlib/html/ http://toshyp.atari.org/ http://cd.textfiles.com/ataricompendium/BOOK/HTML/ http://removers.free.fr/wikipendium/wakka.php?wiki=WikiPendium http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/ > 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 > ??? > 1.2.1 - Why? > For pleasure > 1.2.2 - What is stopping you from changing to another OS and UI ? > I develop under Windows already but with very high level software dev > 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 > Yes > 1.3.1 - Why? > So long time...! I know it very well > 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? > > VDI and AES should work together to have a modern AES (this is my need for MyAES) > 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you think of GEM. > ? > Section 2 - Specific Questions > > 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES operations available? > > ? > 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for VDI function > #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? > > No, your example is bad because I know a compiler using already vdiOpenWorkstation to do some more operation than v_opnwk() name functions is not a problem please do not change theim > 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names available even if > different names were defined? > Yes > 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development available? > Like this? http://windom.sourceforge.net/ > 2.2.1 - If so, what languages (and compilers) are they available for? > C > 2.2.2 - Do you think they are important for developing GEM applications? > Yes > 2.2.3 - What languages (and compilers) would you like to see them for? > C > 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for Linux that > use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on any external > device with the appropriate client program. Would this be useful for > you? > Yes I'm working on this! It's why I'm trying to write VDI after have write AES! Regards Olivier From owen at owenrudge.net Thu Mar 26 08:56:32 2009 From: owen at owenrudge.net (Owen Rudge) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 15:56:32 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49CBA5B0.7050506@owenrudge.net> Hi Shane, > 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If > No go to 1.2 Not any more, alas. But when I was... > 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR > GEM/3, Atari GEM) FreeGEM (mainly my own distribution - I probably stopped work on GEM before OpenGEM really came into being). > 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? I think I was using Borland C/C++ for 16-bit stuff, DJGPP for 32-bit stuff. > 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a > free-ware or open source license) Some of my stuff is freeware, some of it open source. > 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, > from other developers, from google? Mainly my reference would have been the docs on John's site. > 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 No. In fact, I can't even run GEM without some kind of virtual machine these days. :( > 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 I enjoy messing around with it. It's a bit limited for use as a serious platform these days. > 1.3.1 - Why? Nostalgia perhaps? I enjoy playing around with and writing software for old systems (GEM, DOS, Windows 3.x, etc), although these days I don't really have the time. > 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? 32-bit GEM and vaguely decent multitasking would make things a lot easier. > Section 2 - Specific Questions > > 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES operations available? The GEM Developer's Kit defined standard function names, but they could of course be redefined, since they're just wrappers around interrupts. > 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for VDI function > #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? As long as there was a compatibility layer for old software, I wouldn't be against this. > 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names available even if > different names were defined? Yes. > 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development available? I started on something I called "GEM++" a while ago, which was to be some kind of C++ framework for GEM. It never went very far. Not sure if there's much else around. > 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for Linux that > use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on any external > device with the appropriate client program. Would this be useful for > you? Probably not useful, no. Interesting, maybe. Cheers, -- Owen Rudge http://www.owenrudge.net/ From sariatv at gmail.com Thu Mar 26 10:37:07 2009 From: sariatv at gmail.com (James Stafford) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:37:07 +0000 Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <49CBA5B0.7050506@owenrudge.net> References: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> <49CBA5B0.7050506@owenrudge.net> Message-ID: <930647ef0903261037r3b59bd31y812f4647e437b930@mail.gmail.com> Section 1 - General Questions 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If No go to 1.2 No 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR GEM/3, Atari GEM) n/a 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? n/a 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a free-ware or open source license) n/a 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, from other developers, from google? n/a 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 Not really 1.2.1 - Why? n/a 1.2.2 - What is stopping you from changing to another OS and UI ? n/a 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 I like using GEM, but it is flawed in some ways. I think in modern operating systems though, so maybe I'm being harsh with the following criticism; I can't rename files by just clicking once on the filename in each respective window I can't seem to rename files by using the Info/Rename command (!!) No 256 colour support, but that's to be expected with 16-bit, surely 1.3.1 - Why? I like the way it looks, the general 'look and feel' of GEM seems... Ah, I don't know, I just like it :P I suppose it's something to do with the Atari ST connection. 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? I'd amend the problems in question 1.3, as well as.. Scrollwheel support would be useful Different default UI options (the close, resize and drag characters seem out of place - I changed the characters after installing to make them more 'uniform'). If I recall, * was the icon used to close windows. Wouldn't it be more fitting if it were just 'X'? I must mention printer support, maybe something that isn't printer specific, like the Text Only/Generic option in Windows? User accounts within GEM rather than using DOS would be pretty cool. I plan to use my DOS machine to manage handing out of serial numbers for my business and printing on an impact printer, my life would be much more organised if I had separate logins for each different category of application (games, database, productivity etc...). I would use my Mac for all that, and it'd probably be much easier and more secure, but I need to use impact printing and sadly, this 2006 Macintosh doesn't support printer connections from the mid seventies :( Fixing half of the applications distributed with GEM. Write.app can't seem to find 'Write.ini', which isn't terribly helpful. It would help if the applications were all organised and kept in separate folders rather than the current gemapps directory mess. Of course all of these features are things for 'polished' operating systems ;) I wouldn't see it nessacary to add any of them into GEM, but they would be nice finishing touches, you know? 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you think of GEM. GEM is a useful tool, but not much more, and it requires a little more work than it should do to get properly working. I've almost given up trying to print with DOS and GEM, Linux doesn't seem to want to run on my computer and Windows, hah! It's a shame, because GEM has a hell of a lot of potential in my opinion. I'd still use it whatever the situation, though. Section 2 - Specific Questions 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES operations available? Err... 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for VDI function #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? I'm not sure, should I be upset? 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names available even if different names were defined? I always liked the name Randy, but you hardly see people called Randy anymore. You should define more Randy people. 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development available? Unless REAL Software have developed RB for GEM, I'm not too sure... 2.2.1 - If so, what languages (and compilers) are they available for? n/a 2.2.2 - Do you think they are important for developing GEM applications? n/a 2.2.3 - What languages (and compilers) would you like to see them for? n/a 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for Linux that use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on any external device with the appropriate client program. Would this be useful for you? Pass? Sorry, I'm no help here :P -- Telephone: 07938 769809 sariatv at gmail.com From lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org Thu Mar 26 10:50:42 2009 From: lyricalnanoha at usotsuki.hoshinet.org (lyricalnanoha) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:50:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Mar 2009, Shane Gough wrote: > I'm glad there is some activity on the list at the moment, it gives me > the chance to take a quick poll :) > > If you have the time would you please answer the following questions > (section 1 is general, section 2 is specific to developers) and email > back (to me personally if you don't want to bombard the list). > > Section 1 - General Questions > > 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If > No go to 1.2 Not at present, but I have. > 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR > GEM/3, Atari GEM) (It was GEM/3+FreeGEM) > 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? (It was Turbo C++) > 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a > free-ware or open source license) Everything I code is at least GPL-free, and a lot of it's BSD. Because I really don't give. > 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, > from other developers, from google? Pretty much all of the above. > 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 No > 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 More or less. > 1.3.1 - Why? It's fairly familiar to me from using GS/OS. > 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? I'd prolly make standard extensions for running 32-bit apps, handling Internet etc., but not required to run it. I'd prolly also add multitasking. > 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you think of GEM. For what it has been it has been great as. > Section 2 - Specific Questions > > 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES operations available? I believe so. > 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for VDI function > #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? (See below) > 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names available even if > different names were defined? It would probably be best, at least, to have the older names available - I'd prolly do the opposite and alias the new names to the old ones, instead of aliasing the old names to the new. > 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development available? Unknown. > 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for Linux that > use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on any external > device with the appropriate client program. Would this be useful for > you? That would probably be a GEM to X Window translator library, which would be quite useful if it meant the same program could be built with GCC on DOS, Linux and the Atari ST. -uso. From zaojashin at yahoo.com Thu Mar 26 14:54:03 2009 From: zaojashin at yahoo.com (david johnson) Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:54:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <613728.58575.qm@web58602.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello Shane, Thanks for the interesting questions.? My comments below.? Thanks. David Johnson Section 1 - General Questions 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If No go to 1.2 Not developing but had some fun making simple ports of bwbasic and 4tH to GEM. I enjoy using 4tH in the GEM environment. 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR GEM/3, Atari GEM) FreeGEM & OpenGEM 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? Pacific-C, turbo-C, djgpp, bindings and utilities from John Elliott 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a free-ware or open source license) yes 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, from other developers, from google? Mostly from John Elliott's site and the related "FreeGEM" & "OpenGEM" sites. 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 No. Really cannot think of case where a better alternative is not available (though it my be more modern). 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 Yes 1.3.1 - Why? It's fun playing with this bit of living history. I completely missed seeing it. As a user (mosty how I use a computer), I moved from dos to windows with coming across it. If I was lucky, I could get my hands on mac at the time. 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? It would be interesting to see if anything more happens with GEMXM 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you think of GEM. It's great fun, many thanks to the FreeGEM, GEM-dev community for making it available. _______________________________________________ gem-dev mailing list gem-dev at simpits.org http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/gem-dev -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.simpits.org/pipermail/gem-dev/attachments/20090326/9a915efe/attachment.html From goughsw at gmail.com Sat Mar 28 11:04:18 2009 From: goughsw at gmail.com (Shane Gough) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 04:04:18 +1000 Subject: [GEM Development] Thank you all Message-ID: <7da8e8830903281104o2aa609b0sf83e634dee74caed@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'd just like to thank everyone who responded to my impromptu questions. Your answers have given me a better understanding of how and why people are using GEM. I would like to clarify the meaning of question 1.2 'Do you *need* to use GEM?'. In the industry I work in there is a very strong attitude of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. The company I work for at the moment is using Watcom C to compile for MS-DOS targets. A company I used to work for was actually using Commodore 64 machines to drive public displays (the software was written in BASIC and got updated data via the serial port - each machine drove up to 4 displays - all showing the same thing - by using a splitter on the PAL output). It would not have surprised me to find that a custom GEM application was being used to display information in a control center somewhere - this turns out not to be the case (for members of this list at least). What did surprise me was the interest in a 32 bit (flat memory model) version of GEM. My only exposure to GEM has been on i86 (segmented memory architecture, 16 bit) based systems - I guess those using it on the Atari ST systems are used to a 32 bit flat memory model environment and want to use the same thing on emulators/etc under Linux or Windows. I guess it's only fair to let you know why I am interested in GEM - I'm going to cheat and not follow my own set of questions :) First up, I don't *need* to run GEM. Not a single company I have ever worked for has ever used it to the best of my knowledge. So I'm not on this list to scarf information to maintain some weird system I've been put in charge of. I am very interested in older GUI systems though - I think the first GUI I ever saw in the wild was GEOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(8-bit_operating_system)) on a Commodore 128. GEM is probably the only widely distributed system (outside of X11) that the source code is freely available for and it's amazingly small. As a reference source on how these sort of things work it's invaluable (has anyone had a look at the X11 source code?). What I am working on is learning the internals of the system - drivers, desktop accessories, applications, etc. I have a number of goals I'm working towards ... 1/ Developing my own GEM API library for C (and another for Pascal) using freely available 16 bit tools (The Borland tools for DOS - not GPL but at least free). Given that all access to GEM is via a software interrupt this shouldn't be too hard - although there are a lot of functions and escapes to code for. This is my reason for asking about function names (I *really* dislike the current set of function names - wk_init() belongs in the 70's, these days we definitely should have a WorkstationInit() function instead - all depends on the number of significant characters in an identifier for the minimal target compiler I guess). 2/ Developing an OO framework on top of that library to allow easy development of applications. Think of it as GFC (GEM Foundation Classes) as opposed to MFC (MIcrosoft Foundation Classes). At the moment I'm just calling it ogem. 3/ Making sure both of the above work on PC GEM and ATARI GEM (I haven't been able to track down a physical ST box yet - so most of my testing in that regard will be done on emulators). 4/ Making a GEM compatible API for Linux using the framebuffer device (/dev/fb) or VNC. Ideally any app written for (or converted to) the API's in 1 & 2 should be compilable under Linux and use the GEM desktop instead of X. How long is this stuff going to take? Who knows - I have a hack at it when I can. Once I get something going that is at least workable I'll push it up to sourceforge and you are all welcome to play with it. Why should there be a GEM on Unix systems? Because X11 is huge (even the TinyX implementations), and there is no need for network transparency if you use VNC or another virtual desktop protocol. This would satisfy a lot of peoples desire for a flat model 32 bit version of GEM though :) Anyway - once again I thank you for your responses. Please respond to my blurb above if you have any ideas about it (for or against). Regards, Shane From pcgem at mbernstein.de Sun Mar 29 03:30:00 2009 From: pcgem at mbernstein.de (Michael Bernstein) Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:30:00 +0200 Subject: [GEM Development] An opportunity to ask some questions :) In-Reply-To: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com>; from goughsw@gmail.com on Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 11:55:01PM +1000 References: <7da8e8830903260655h7ea7f535he923264cded5fb0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090329123000.A26736@mbernstein.de> Hi Shane, > I'm glad there is some activity on the list at the moment, it gives me > the chance to take a quick poll :) Ok, i also want to give you a little bit feedback. > Section 1 - General Questions > > 1.1 - Are you developing software to run under GEM (any version)? If > No go to 1.2 Yes. > 1.1.1 - What version of GEM are you developing for? (eg: OpenGEM, DR > GEM/3, Atari GEM) Atari GEM > 1.1.2 - What tools are you using? Turbo C for Atari (includes a IDE), RCS (from DR and RsourceMaster) > 1.1.3 - Are they free? (as in 'really' free - released under a > free-ware or open source license) No > 1.1.4 - Where do you get your documentation? From the tools you use, > from other developers, from google? TOS.HYP (ST Hypertext, also online available) Atari Profibuch ST STE TT > 1.2 - Do you *need* to use GEM? If No go to 1.3 No > 1.2.1 - Why? Because this os the "standard OS" for my Atari computers. > 1.2.2 - What is stopping you from changing to another OS and UI ? Seee 1.3.1 > 1.3 - Do you enjoy using GEM? If No go to 1.4 Yes > 1.3.1 - Why? The GEM on my Atari Computers have a "easy to use" feeling which i miss on other systems. I can also write my own software and nothing is hidden inside of huge librarys. For my small programs good enough. Windows is more colorfull, Mac hides internals, Linux are great for my servers but with KDE goes the windows way. Its like the first love. All others miss something to feel again like the days i started with my first Atari. Maybe computers are to common and my knowledge to big to give again the feeling of this magic of explore the computer. > 1.3.2 - What would you change about current GEM versions if you could? For Atari, MiNT with Posix functions N.VDI and new AES was a good way. For PC GEM i would like to see the same way for GEM to let both systems be compatible. This will allow to compile software with little effort for both systmes. But i dont know, how it is possible with limited resources. Maybe only with DOS extender? For both systems VDI drivers. On Atari f.vdi was a free replacement. But it lacks some features of N.VDI > 1.4 - Please give me a free form comment about what you think of GEM. A nice small gui which was easy to use. And easy to programm at low level. This means i can learn the basic on GUI programing without frameworks wich hides the system. But i see not much need for GEM as a small GUI. This is because a small system of today is much more powerfull than a old DOS PC. As an example: Tanenbaum is working on Minix 3. Minix was a "leightweight" mini unix which can published in a book. The version 3 was made to get a small UNIX like OS for small systems. But they also use X11 as a GUI and they dont see the need of a smaller GUI. It seems for me, it is difficult to find ai new place for GEM. > Section 2 - Specific Questions > > 2.1 - Are there standard function names for the VDI/AES operations available? Yes. The names are defined by DR and Atari as a standard for portable GEM development. You can look inside my PC GEM library to get the standard names. > 2.1.1 - Would you be upset if the names changed (ie: for VDI function > #1 from v_opnwk to vdiOpenWorkstation)? No > 2.1.2 - Would it be better to make the older names available even if > different names were defined? For my needs, the old names are good enough. > 2.2 - Are there any OO frameworks for GEM development available? I dont know about such a framework. But maybe there is one available for Atari computers. > 2.2.1 - If so, what languages (and compilers) are they available for? If yes, i expect a framwork for the GC. > 2.2.2 - Do you think they are important for developing GEM applications? I think no. A good framework can make development more easy and faster. But it eats more memory. And this is a limited resource for DOS software. > 2.2.3 - What languages (and compilers) would you like to see them for? I am satisfied with the compilers a have. > 2.3 - Imagine this scenario: You can write applications for Linux that > use the standard GEM API and the output can be viewed on any external > device with the appropriate client program. Would this be useful for > you? This is the idea behind X11! I have some UNIX machines and a X server on every machine which should show the output. And this works with less overhead than VNC. I would like more the idea of map the GEM API with a library to the X11 systems. This will allow to compile GEM software on a UNIX system. But i dont have to set up a different graphical gui and can use all benefits of X11. Regards Michael Bernstein