Home » Simpit Discussion » simpits-tech » [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator?
| [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2774] |
Sat, 31 March 2012 20:39  |
 dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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Hi fellows, I have a little poser for you. I just got my hands on a used King KI-255 00 ADF indicator for my sim (yes, I am old school, I will be doing ADF work with this sim). It's a very basic old model with the manually adjusted compass rose...the only moving, driven part on here is the ADF needle itself. It doesn't seem like it should be too difficult to drive, but I can't find so much as a pin-out on the interwebz. There is a Cannon 4-pin connector at the top which I assume is power for integrated lighting, and then there are 20 pins at the bottom of the back of the unit.....three rows: top row is 7 pins, next row is 6, last one is 7 again. Looks a bit like an oversized DIN connector.
My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my experience with air core movements is still very early. Without dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to test this theory reliably and safely.
If nothing else, I will just gut this thing and use a geared stepper motor to drive the needle, but using the real instrument without modification would be oh so cool. :)
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2776 is a reply to message #2774 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 09:22  |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 3/31/2012 10:39 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Hi fellows, I have a little poser for you. I just got my hands on a used King KI-255 00 ADF indicator for my sim (yes, I am old school, I will be doing ADF work with this sim). It's a very basic old model with the manually adjusted compass rose...the only moving, driven part on here is the ADF needle itself. It doesn't seem like it should be too difficult to drive, but I can't find so much as a pin-out on the interwebz. There is a Cannon 4-pin connector at the top which I assume is power for integrated lighting, and then there are 20 pins at the bottom of the back of the unit.....three rows: top row is 7 pins, next row is 6, last one is 7 again. Looks a bit like an oversized DIN connector.
>
> My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my experience with air core movements is still very early. Without dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to test this theory reliably and safely.
>
> If nothing else, I will just gut this thing and use a geared stepper motor to drive the needle, but using the real instrument without modification would be oh so cool. :)
>
> Matt
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> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
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I checked my wiring guides and then Googled about for a bit and I came
across this..
http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/tb20-experience/ki-256-s b11.pdf
I am going to put all of my wiring guides on our website..
www.phoenixaerospace.us/download/wiring_guides
it needs a user guide and password(i will not post it here but) i will
email you directly if you request it.
I also have a large library of simulation and they are here
www.phoenixaerospace.us/download/nexgen
same rulles as above..
Enjoy...
Cris H.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2777 is a reply to message #2774 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 10:13 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 3/31/2012 10:39 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Hi fellows, I have a little poser for you. I just got my hands on a used King KI-255 00 ADF indicator for my sim (yes, I am old school, I will be doing ADF work with this sim). It's a very basic old model with the manually adjusted compass rose...the only moving, driven part on here is the ADF needle itself. It doesn't seem like it should be too difficult to drive, but I can't find so much as a pin-out on the interwebz. There is a Cannon 4-pin connector at the top which I assume is power for integrated lighting, and then there are 20 pins at the bottom of the back of the unit.....three rows: top row is 7 pins, next row is 6, last one is 7 again. Looks a bit like an oversized DIN connector.
>
> My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my experience with air core movements is still very early. Without dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to test this theory reliably and safely.
>
> If nothing else, I will just gut this thing and use a geared stepper motor to drive the needle, but using the real instrument without modification would be oh so cool. :)
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
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> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
>
for all you wiring jockeys out there I just came across NAVAIR
01-1A-505-1 AIRCRAFT ELECTRIC AND ELECTRONIC WIRING:
http://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-1-1500-323-
enjoy
Cris H.
phoenixcomm.wordpress.com
phoenixaerospace.us
flite-tronics.com
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2779 is a reply to message #2775 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 11:25 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 3/31/2012 10:51 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
>> My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive
>> the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my
>> experience with air core movements is still very early. Without
>> dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to
>> test this theory reliably and safely.
> Matt, it probably uses a synchro and not an air-core motor
BTW dont worry to much about damaging the unit.. there pretty robust..
most of them come apart the same way of sorts
1. find the spline/tork/alein wrench that holds on the obs knob..
2. on the back or behind the bezel, find the screws and remove them, if
the back comes off your most likely have to remove the connector(s) from
the shell..
3.. SAVE EVERY THING -- TAKE PICS FOR REFERENCE!!
for reference:
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com
or my buds l-1011 site we both have the same N1 Tachometer and he pulls
one apart..
I have the manual, that I got from a friendly repair station, so he got
them working..
http://l1011project.blogspot.com/2010/01/avionics-bending-in dicator-tachometer.html
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2780 is a reply to message #2775 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 11:36 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
> > My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive
> > the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my
> > experience with air core movements is still very early. Without
> > dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to
> > test this theory reliably and safely.
>
> Matt, it probably uses a synchro and not an air-core motor.
>
> g.
Well I got brave and opened it up....there are two cylinders inside, one bigger than the other, each has a bunch of wires coming out of it. I google'd the part # last night and did not come up with anything, will be doing some more research today. I was thinking maybe a stepper motor, but would a synchro also fit this description?
I suppose the compass card moves after all, since there appear to be two motors/synchros/steppers/whatever inside.
If it's a synchro, I'm guessing it will be much easier to just gut the thing and go the stepper router, rather than trying to drive a synchro.......
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2781 is a reply to message #2780 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 11:58 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1071
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Sun, 1 Apr 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Well I got brave and opened it up....there are two cylinders inside, one
> bigger than the other, each has a bunch of wires coming out of it. I
> google'd the part # last night and did not come up with anything, will
> be doing some more research today. I was thinking maybe a stepper motor,
> but would a synchro also fit this description?
>
> I suppose the compass card moves after all, since there appear to be two
> motors/synchros/steppers/whatever inside.
>
> If it's a synchro, I'm guessing it will be much easier to just gut the
> thing and go the stepper router, rather than trying to drive a
> synchro.......
>
I've NEVER seen a real aircraft instrument that used a stepper. It _may_
have been done, but I doubt it.
You can drive that synchro by building one of Mike Powell's Digital to
Synchro converter boards. He covers this in his book, Building
Recreational Flight Simulators. You can download board artwork for
ExpressPCB from his website.
What would be nice is a Synchro to Digital converter so we can read
synchro resolvers. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2782 is a reply to message #2780 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 13:03 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 4/1/2012 1:36 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Gene Buckle<geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>>
>>> My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive
>>> the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my
>>> experience with air core movements is still very early. Without
>>> dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to
>>> test this theory reliably and safely.
>> Matt, it probably uses a synchro and not an air-core motor.
>>
>> g.
> Well I got brave and opened it up....there are two cylinders inside, one bigger than the other, each has a bunch of wires coming out of it. I google'd the part # last night and did not come up with anything, will be doing some more research today. I was thinking maybe a stepper motor, but would a synchro also fit this description?
>
> I suppose the compass card moves after all, since there appear to be two motors/synchros/steppers/whatever inside.
>
> If it's a synchro, I'm guessing it will be much easier to just gut the thing and go the stepper router, rather than trying to drive a synchro.......
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
>
send me a pic.. btw how many wires are coming out of each.. most likely
5 syncro, 4 or 6 resolver
Cris
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Hackerizing a King ADF indicator? [message #2783 is a reply to message #2780 ] |
Sun, 01 April 2012 13:05 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 4/1/2012 1:36 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Gene Buckle<geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>>
>>> My first thought is that it uses a series of air core movements to drive
>>> the needle with great precision throughout 360 degrees, but my
>>> experience with air core movements is still very early. Without
>>> dissecting the indicator (and possibly damaging it), I have no way to
>>> test this theory reliably and safely.
>> Matt, it probably uses a synchro and not an air-core motor.
>>
>> g.
> Well I got brave and opened it up....there are two cylinders inside, one bigger than the other, each has a bunch of wires coming out of it. I google'd the part # last night and did not come up with anything, will be doing some more research today. I was thinking maybe a stepper motor, but would a synchro also fit this description?
>
> I suppose the compass card moves after all, since there appear to be two motors/synchros/steppers/whatever inside.
>
> If it's a synchro, I'm guessing it will be much easier to just gut the thing and go the stepper router, rather than trying to drive a synchro.......
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
>
one more thing .. pls send with pics part numbers, manufactures, etc or
anything else on the item
Cris I can most likely id them for you..
Cris
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