Home » Simpit Discussion » simpits-tech » [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core?
| [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2785] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 00:47  |
 dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
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Well, tonight I've been knee-deep in Arduino goodness. I have once again stayed up far too late, but it has been very fruitful! So far I have:
- Learned how to set and read the state of Arduino's pins;
- Read a rotary encoder, and rolled my own debouncing code which allows me to spin the knob considerably faster;
- Sent chars, strings, and ints to/from the Arduino and PC;
- Successfully driven an air-core motor....woohoo!!!
Baby steps, I know...though I am rather proud of the air core thing. :) Anyway, as you can imagine, the Arduino opens up a whole new level of gadgetty goodness I can implement in my sim. Currently, I'm interested in air core motors...the motion is very smooth, completely silent, and can be very precise. Do you guys know of any sort of aircraft instruments in particular that tend to be air-core driven? Right now I am driving an old Cessna flap indicator that I picked up on ebay...original plan was to gut it and use a servo, until I ascertained upon delivery that it uses a simple air core motor. Now the indicator needle is merrily sweeping back and forth on my desk. :D
I'm thinking simple instruments like AoA indicators, volt/ammeters, engine gauges, etc.
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2788 is a reply to message #2785 ] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 20:00  |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
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On 4/4/2012 2:47 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Well, tonight I've been knee-deep in Arduino goodness. I have once again stayed up far too late, but it has been very fruitful! So far I have:
>
> - Learned how to set and read the state of Arduino's pins;
>
> - Read a rotary encoder, and rolled my own debouncing code which allows me to spin the knob considerably faster;
>
> - Sent chars, strings, and ints to/from the Arduino and PC;
>
> - Successfully driven an air-core motor....woohoo!!!
>
> Baby steps, I know...though I am rather proud of the air core thing. :) Anyway, as you can imagine, the Arduino opens up a whole new level of gadgetty goodness I can implement in my sim. Currently, I'm interested in air core motors...the motion is very smooth, completely silent, and can be very precise. Do you guys know of any sort of aircraft instruments in particular that tend to be air-core driven? Right now I am driving an old Cessna flap indicator that I picked up on ebay...original plan was to gut it and use a servo, until I ascertained upon delivery that it uses a simple air core motor. Now the indicator needle is merrily sweeping back and forth on my desk. :D
>
> I'm thinking simple instruments like AoA indicators, volt/ammeters, engine gauges, etc.
>
> Matt
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Congrats!!! Woopie!!
Cris H
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2789 is a reply to message #2787 ] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 20:49 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
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On 4/4/2012 2:55 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
>> - Successfully driven an air-core motor....woohoo!!!
>>
> I'd love to see the code for this. Care to post a demo? :)
>
>> I'm thinking simple instruments like AoA indicators, volt/ammeters,
>> engine gauges, etc.
> Any single needle instrument that doesn't need more than 360 degrees of
> rotation is a perfect candidate for air-core motors.
>
> g.
>
gene not really.. the needles in CDI for ILS and all the FLAGS in both
the HSI, and VSI are just meter movements why mess about changing them
to - air core motors when all you do I hook a DAC (Digital to Analog
Converter and drive them... EASY PEASY!!
Cris H.
phoenixcomm.wordpress.com
phoenixaerospace.us
flite-tronics.com
just remember that pointers in the CDI are zero center ie + 0 - so you
need a DAC with bipolar output..
and your flags are uni-polar,
------Data Bus----{ DAC }=(meter movement)
a quick present from google: http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN2398.pdf
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2790 is a reply to message #2789 ] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 22:17 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
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---- Cris Harrison <phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> gene not really.. the needles in CDI for ILS and all the FLAGS in both
> the HSI, and VSI are just meter movements why mess about changing them
> to - air core motors when all you do I hook a DAC (Digital to Analog
> Converter and drive them... EASY PEASY!!
Cris, as it happens, I was just wondering about VOR/CDI gauges....it seems like they would be air-core, but if they are simply "volt meters" then that is super easy to drive! Except for this part.....
> just remember that pointers in the CDI are zero center ie + 0 - so you
> need a DAC with bipolar output..
> and your flags are uni-polar,
> ------Data Bus----{ DAC }=(meter movement)
>
> a quick present from google: http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN2398.pdf
.........but I have already run into this with getting more than 120* or so out of my current air core instrument. But if I understand it correctly, I can use an H-bridge to make this work. Also, instead of a DAC, I believe I can just use pulse-width modulation to run the things...doing that currently with air cores and the Arduino.
I did come across an ebay listing for the 10-pack engine/system meters that Bonanzas and other Beechcraft planes have....looking at the back panel, it looks like they are simply meter instruments as well, very simple to drive.
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2792 is a reply to message #2787 ] |
Wed, 04 April 2012 23:15 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
> > - Successfully driven an air-core motor....woohoo!!!
> >
> I'd love to see the code for this. Care to post a demo? :)
Really? I'm flattered! :) I took one of the example sketches and modified it extensively to suit my needs (I tend to prefer taking *working* code when I am learning, and modify it one step at a time as needed....I'm a hand-on learner and this avoids a lot of frustration). Pardon me if this is obvious to you already, but basically I'm just using pulse-width modulation to deliver an "average" voltage to each of the motor's two poles, with the voltages being the inverse of each other (the X and Y values of a sine wave, basically). If you wanted to get cute, you could use the Arduino's built-in trig functions to simply pass the Arduino an integer representing whatever info you want the gauge to display, convert it to a value between 0 and 1.0, and figure the X and Y values using sin() or cos().
// Setup two values, one for each pin/each pole of the motor. These are basically the X and Y
// values going to the motor, should probably be labeled as such I suppose.....
int A = 0;
int B = 255;
int mode = 0; // set to 0 when A increasing/B decreasing..tells us if our sine value is going up or down, basically.
void setup() {
// setup output pins
pinMode(3, OUTPUT);
pinMode(5, OUTPUT);
}
void loop() {
analogWrite(3, A);
analogWrite(5, B);
if (mode == 0) { // if mode is 0, A is on the rise and B is going down......
A += 5;
B -= 5;
if (A >= 255) { // once A hits 255, we switch direction...now A beings to decrease, and B goes on the rise.
A = 255;
B = 0;
mode = 1; }
}
else {
A -= 5;
B += 5;
if (B >= 255) { // same as above, but for B of course
A = 0;
B = 255;
mode = 0; }
}
// wait for 30 milliseconds, so we have a chance to see the beautiful air core sweep :)
delay(30);
}
> Any single needle instrument that doesn't need more than 360 degrees of
> rotation is a perfect candidate for air-core motors.
Well, what I'm really interested in is driving REAL instruments, without hackerizing them. :) So far I have learned by finding sweet deals on ebay and then tearing into the instrument to see what makes it tick (like the ADF indicator). I suppose I can keep going this route, so long as it doesn't get too expensive. :)
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2794 is a reply to message #2790 ] |
Thu, 05 April 2012 05:40 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 4/5/2012 12:17 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Cris Harrison<phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> gene not really.. the needles in CDI for ILS and all the FLAGS in both
>> the HSI, and VSI are just meter movements why mess about changing them
>> to - air core motors when all you do I hook a DAC (Digital to Analog
>> Converter and drive them... EASY PEASY!!
> Cris, as it happens, I was just wondering about VOR/CDI gauges....it seems like they would be air-core, but if they are simply "volt meters" then that is super easy to drive! Except for this part.....
Nope aircraft instrument makes dont know what air core is.. They are
mostly zero center voltmeters that measure voltage from some negitive
voltage to some posistive voltage..
QUESTION?? Why hack something up, when you dont have to.
ANSWER: if its a volt meter drive a voltmeter.. btw NOT with pwm.. just
voltage..
>> just remember that pointers in the CDI are zero center ie + 0 - so you
>> need a DAC with bipolar output..
>> and your flags are uni-polar,
>> ------Data Bus----{ DAC }=(meter movement)
>>
>> a quick present from google: http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN2398.pdf
> .........but I have already run into this with getting more than 120* or so out of my current air core instrument. But if I understand it correctly, I can use an H-bridge to make this work. Also, instead of a DAC, I believe I can just use pulse-width modulation to run the things...doing that currently with air cores and the Arduino.
>
> I did come across an ebay listing for the 10-pack engine/system meters that Bonanzas and other Beechcraft planes have....looking at the back panel, it looks like they are simply meter instruments as well, very simple to drive.
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
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> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
>
about the photos... the idea was to take pictures of the parts with the
writing on it.. so I could read it..
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2795 is a reply to message #2789 ] |
Thu, 05 April 2012 07:42 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1074
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, Cris Harrison wrote:
> On 4/4/2012 2:55 PM, Gene Buckle wrote:
>> On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>>
>>> - Successfully driven an air-core motor....woohoo!!!
>>>
>> I'd love to see the code for this. Care to post a demo? :)
>>
>>> I'm thinking simple instruments like AoA indicators, volt/ammeters,
>>> engine gauges, etc.
>> Any single needle instrument that doesn't need more than 360 degrees of
>> rotation is a perfect candidate for air-core motors.
>>
>> g.
>>
> gene not really.. the needles in CDI for ILS and all the FLAGS in both
> the HSI, and VSI are just meter movements why mess about changing them
> to - air core motors when all you do I hook a DAC (Digital to Analog
> Converter and drive them... EASY PEASY!!
>
Well those are D'Arsennault(sp?) movements and you could probably drive
them using the PWM output on the Arduino. It would be impractical (not to
mention impossible for thing like flags - no room!) to convert such things
to air-core. I seriously doubt Matt would consider such a path when it's
painfully obvious that they're not synchros.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2796 is a reply to message #2792 ] |
Thu, 05 April 2012 07:58 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1074
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Wed, 4 Apr 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>>> - Successfully driven an air-core motor....woohoo!!!
>>>
>> I'd love to see the code for this. Care to post a demo? :)
>
> Really? I'm flattered! :) I took one of the example sketches and
> modified it extensively to suit my needs (I tend to prefer taking
> *working* code when I am learning, and modify it one step at a time as
> needed....I'm a hand-on learner and this avoids a lot of frustration).
> Pardon me if this is obvious to you already, but basically I'm just
> using pulse-width modulation to deliver an "average" voltage to each of
> the motor's two poles, with the voltages being the inverse of each other
> (the X and Y values of a sine wave, basically). If you wanted to get
> cute, you could use the Arduino's built-in trig functions to simply pass
> the Arduino an integer representing whatever info you want the gauge to
> display, convert it to a value between 0 and 1.0, and figure the X and Y
> values using sin() or cos().
>
Very slick, thanks for sharing!
>> Any single needle instrument that doesn't need more than 360 degrees of
>> rotation is a perfect candidate for air-core motors.
>
> Well, what I'm really interested in is driving REAL instruments, without
> hackerizing them. :) So far I have learned by finding sweet deals on
> ebay and then tearing into the instrument to see what makes it tick
> (like the ADF indicator). I suppose I can keep going this route, so long
> as it doesn't get too expensive. :)
You _really_ need to get a copy of Building Recreational Flight
Simulators, Matt. There's a section dedicated to doing this exact thing.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2801 is a reply to message #2796 ] |
Thu, 05 April 2012 11:50 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> >
> Very slick, thanks for sharing!
No problem, hope it's useful!
> You _really_ need to get a copy of Building Recreational Flight
> Simulators, Matt. There's a section dedicated to doing this exact thing.
You know, I thought I had a copy around here, but it's actually his original book (building instrumentation). Sounds like a worthwhile investment.
Do you remember the guy a while back with the F-100 ejection seat/cockpit? (Real seat, homemade cockpit.) His first name was Matt, I forget his last name. He was one of my first inspirations for cockpit building back in the day. His cockpit was *amazing*. He had 400hz inverters and synchro controllers, the pit was CHOCKED FULL of real gear, like CDIs, attitude indicator, I think he even had an HSI working. I remember thinking he was miles beyond my capabilities and into things I would never be able to do, but as my skills and knowledge have increased, I can just begin to see a path to similar functionality on my own pit...........
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Common aviation gauges that are air-core? [message #2803 is a reply to message #2801 ] |
Thu, 05 April 2012 12:29 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1074
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Thu, 5 Apr 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
> ---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>>>
>> Very slick, thanks for sharing!
>
> No problem, hope it's useful!
>
>> You _really_ need to get a copy of Building Recreational Flight
>> Simulators, Matt. There's a section dedicated to doing this exact thing.
>
> You know, I thought I had a copy around here, but it's actually his
> original book (building instrumentation). Sounds like a worthwhile
> investment.
>
It is!
> Do you remember the guy a while back with the F-100 ejection
> seat/cockpit? (Real seat, homemade cockpit.) His first name was Matt, I
> forget his last name. He was one of my first inspirations for cockpit
> building back in the day. His cockpit was *amazing*. He had 400hz
> inverters and synchro controllers, the pit was CHOCKED FULL of real
> gear, like CDIs, attitude indicator, I think he even had an HSI working.
> I remember thinking he was miles beyond my capabilities and into things
> I would never be able to do, but as my skills and knowledge have
> increased, I can just begin to see a path to similar functionality on my
> own pit...........
http://www.mattssimulator.com
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
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