Home » Simpit Discussion » simpits-tech » [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help
| [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2311] |
Mon, 18 July 2011 21:37  |
 dabigboy
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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Just wondering if anyone could offer some advice here. I scored an old Apollo 612b Loran a while back, to build into a generic GPS for X-Plane (since I can't see spending $5k+ on a nice KLN-94 to interface directly, though that would be awesome...) Handily, the dual-concentric rotary encoder, push buttons, LED matrix panels, and LED annunciators are all on their own easily-detached panel. Interfacing the encoder, buttons, and annuciators should be fairly straighforward, but I'm stuck on the solid-state LED matrices.
This seems to be what I have:
http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=750
Specifically, mine is the QDSP-2007. Unfortunately I have pretty much zero experience when it comes to making microcontrollers and writing assembly code, but it sounds like this may be fairly straightforward (if a bit tedious to actually use) for someone with a little more experience to wire up.
Does anyone know of an existing microcontroller card of some sort that would talk to this little guy? Is it something an Arduino might be able to drive without any special intermediary circuits (just using the data pins)?
If anyone could offer advice or just point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. My next plan is to hack one of those little 1.5" keychain photo frames (already found a solution for this that will probably work OK) and put it in place of the matrices, but they sure do have a cool retro appeal. Even if I stick with the 1.5" photo frame, it would be nice to use the LED matrices somewhere else.
Thanks!
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2313 is a reply to message #2311 ] |
Mon, 18 July 2011 23:44  |
Jim Sturcbecher
Messages: 12
Registered: August 2009 |
Junior Member |
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Yes, an Arduino or any small microcontroller would work. You
use a process called "bit-banging". (No this is not any reference
to chance adult encounters in the night). Anyone who does micro
programming on this list should be able to help. Unfortunately,
I am heavily involved with another project at the moment and don't
have any spare time.
Oh yes, you need to find the pinouts of the display. Given the
choice, I would probably use the Arduino.
Good luck,
Jim.
-----Original Message-----
From: simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org
[mailto:simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org] On Behalf Of dabigboy@cox.net
Sent: 19 July 2011 06:37
To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
Subject: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help
Just wondering if anyone could offer some advice here. I scored an old
Apollo 612b Loran a while back, to build into a generic GPS for X-Plane
(since I can't see spending $5k+ on a nice KLN-94 to interface directly,
though that would be awesome...) Handily, the dual-concentric rotary
encoder, push buttons, LED matrix panels, and LED annunciators are all on
their own easily-detached panel. Interfacing the encoder, buttons, and
annuciators should be fairly straighforward, but I'm stuck on the
solid-state LED matrices.
This seems to be what I have:
http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=750
Specifically, mine is the QDSP-2007. Unfortunately I have pretty much zero
experience when it comes to making microcontrollers and writing assembly
code, but it sounds like this may be fairly straightforward (if a bit
tedious to actually use) for someone with a little more experience to wire
up.
Does anyone know of an existing microcontroller card of some sort that would
talk to this little guy? Is it something an Arduino might be able to drive
without any special intermediary circuits (just using the data pins)?
If anyone could offer advice or just point me in the right direction, I
would appreciate it. My next plan is to hack one of those little 1.5"
keychain photo frames (already found a solution for this that will probably
work OK) and put it in place of the matrices, but they sure do have a cool
retro appeal. Even if I stick with the 1.5" photo frame, it would be nice to
use the LED matrices somewhere else.
Thanks!
Matt
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Thanks!
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2319 is a reply to message #2318 ] |
Tue, 19 July 2011 18:06 |
dabigboy
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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Awesome, how did you find these?!? I need to double-check the dimensions but I think these would work too. I gotta say, the data sheet on this is very well written, it actually makes more sense than a lot of what I've read so far on the design and control methods for such devices.
Question though: how would this offer an advantage over the QDSP-2007? I'm assuming easier interfacing, would it reduce the number of components I need for interfacing this to, say, an Arduino?
Thanks again!
Matt
---- Roberto Waltman <fsim@rwaltman.com> wrote:
> dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> > This seems to be what I have:
> > http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=750
> >
> > Specifically, mine is the QDSP-2007.
>
> If you are not committed to using those, you can buy similar LED matrix
> displays from Avago. (I believe [not sure] they bought the [old] product
> line from HP.)
>
> They have some models with a serial interface, which is much easier to
> interface than a conventional matrix.(And your pick of two different reds,
> orange, green or yellow):
>
> "The HCMS-29xx series are high performance,
> easy to use dot matrix displays driven by
> on-board CMOS ICs.
> Each display can be directly interfaced with
> a microprocessor, thus eliminating the need
> for cumbersome interface components. The
> serial IC interface allows higher character
> count information displays with a minimum
> of data lines."
>
> http://www.avagotech.com/
>
> http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/led_displays/smart_alphanu meric_displays/serial_interface/
>
> http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/led_displays/smart_alphanu meric_displays/serial_interface/hcms-2901/
>
>
> --
> Roberto Waltman.
>
>
>
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> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2320 is a reply to message #2313 ] |
Tue, 19 July 2011 18:11 |
dabigboy
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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Alright, it's decided, I'm buying myself an Arduino. I'm starting to understand this stuff well enough that I think I could tackle the Arduino......I love my Phidgets, but I think an Arduino would just open up a lot more possibilities, plus it wouldn't be too costly (ergo, not having to buy a separate $80+ board for something that only does a fairly narrow set of thing, plus not having any way to interface air core motors to Phidgets at all).
Thanks for the input....now to research "bit-banging"......do I need to put Google in NSFW mode? :)
Matt
---- Jim Sturcbecher <jimsturs@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Yes, an Arduino or any small microcontroller would work. You
> use a process called "bit-banging". (No this is not any reference
> to chance adult encounters in the night). Anyone who does micro
> programming on this list should be able to help. Unfortunately,
> I am heavily involved with another project at the moment and don't
> have any spare time.
>
> Oh yes, you need to find the pinouts of the display. Given the
> choice, I would probably use the Arduino.
>
> Good luck,
> Jim.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org
> [mailto:simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org] On Behalf Of dabigboy@cox.net
> Sent: 19 July 2011 06:37
> To: simpits-tech@simpits.org
> Subject: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help
>
> Just wondering if anyone could offer some advice here. I scored an old
> Apollo 612b Loran a while back, to build into a generic GPS for X-Plane
> (since I can't see spending $5k+ on a nice KLN-94 to interface directly,
> though that would be awesome...) Handily, the dual-concentric rotary
> encoder, push buttons, LED matrix panels, and LED annunciators are all on
> their own easily-detached panel. Interfacing the encoder, buttons, and
> annuciators should be fairly straighforward, but I'm stuck on the
> solid-state LED matrices.
>
> This seems to be what I have:
> http://www.decadecounter.com/vta/articleview.php?item=750
>
> Specifically, mine is the QDSP-2007. Unfortunately I have pretty much zero
> experience when it comes to making microcontrollers and writing assembly
> code, but it sounds like this may be fairly straightforward (if a bit
> tedious to actually use) for someone with a little more experience to wire
> up.
>
> Does anyone know of an existing microcontroller card of some sort that would
> talk to this little guy? Is it something an Arduino might be able to drive
> without any special intermediary circuits (just using the data pins)?
>
> If anyone could offer advice or just point me in the right direction, I
> would appreciate it. My next plan is to hack one of those little 1.5"
> keychain photo frames (already found a solution for this that will probably
> work OK) and put it in place of the matrices, but they sure do have a cool
> retro appeal. Even if I stick with the 1.5" photo frame, it would be nice to
> use the LED matrices somewhere else.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page.
> Thanks!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2321 is a reply to message #2319 ] |
Tue, 19 July 2011 19:46 |
Roberto Waltman
Messages: 45
Registered: August 2010 |
Member |
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dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Awesome, how did you find these?!?
Once upon a time, I was looking for a display for a
calculator. A search using an HP part number brought me to
Avago.
> Question though: how would this offer an advantage over the QDSP-2007? > I'm assuming easier interfacing, would it reduce the
number of components I need for interfacing this to, say, an
Arduino?
Without knowing the details of the QDSP-2007, a
"traditional" LED matrix is just that, a LED matrix.
You need to provide drivers for each row/column/segment, and
refresh the data continuously.
The Avago chips have internal drivers and latches. You write
the data you want displayed only once, (or only when it
changes,) and the display's built-in circuitry takes care of
the rest. The interface is one bit in into a big shift
register plus a few control lines.
If the microcontroller uses the same voltage (say, 3.3V) you
don't need anything more than routing the lines between
controller and display. (Except, maybe, a few pull up or
down resistors)
--
Roberto Waltman
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2322 is a reply to message #2320 ] |
Tue, 19 July 2011 19:57 |
Roberto Waltman
Messages: 45
Registered: August 2010 |
Member |
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dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ....now to research "bit-banging"
Bit-banging means just manipulating I/O pins under software
control to achieve whatever you need to achieve were those
pins are connected.
For example, normally you would use a UART to provide serial
communications. But if you need one UART more than what your
controller provides, (or the UART(s) pins are taken by a
different function), you can "bit-bang" one by using output
commands + delays in software to provide the correct
waveforms. (For Tx).
Or use input commands + measuring the timing of transitions.
(For Rx.)
Same for, for example, an SPI interface. Do not have an
available SPI controller, "fabricate" one with 4 I/O pins.
Same for I2C, stepper motor controllers, reading a rotary
encoder, even USB.
Or interfacing with a display.
--
Roberto Waltman
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2323 is a reply to message #2321 ] |
Wed, 20 July 2011 06:25 |
phoenixcomm
Messages: 164
Registered: January 2009
Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |
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On 7/19/2011 9:46 PM, Roberto Waltman wrote:
> dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>> Awesome, how did you find these?!?
> Once upon a time, I was looking for a display for a
> calculator. A search using an HP part number brought me to
> Avago.
>
>> Question though: how would this offer an advantage over the QDSP-2007?> I'm assuming easier interfacing, would it reduce the
> number of components I need for interfacing this to, say, an
> Arduino?
>
Unfortunately you picked a display that is categorized as 'dumb'. That
means basically what, and or where do you want to put your effort. Just
because this chip has a serial port, and internal shit registers, means
that you have to to ALL the work in code. Now what does that mean?
1. You have to design and build the interface to the chip.
2. You have to write the interface library to the chip.
3. You have to write the ascii to chip encoder.
Now lets look a two other approaches.
* Smart Display Modules. you need 1.
* Smart Display Driver - Dumb Display = wire interface between the
to and your done.
I prefer the last two approaches: and the second one is even better...
Lets look at a Max6955 this beast has a I2C interface (nice), and can
drive 16 7-segment, 8 14 or 16-segment or 128 discrete LEDs, or a
combination of display types.
Moral of this story: Design, Design, Design. Maybe change your Display
Modules.
Enjoy
Cris H.
phoenixcomm.net/~phnx2000/sim
phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/projects/nav-cdu/
> Without knowing the details of the QDSP-2007, a
> "traditional" LED matrix is just that, a LED matrix.
> You need to provide drivers for each row/column/segment, and
> refresh the data continuously.
>
> The Avago chips have internal drivers and latches. You write
> the data you want displayed only once, (or only when it
> changes,) and the display's built-in circuitry takes care of
> the rest. The interface is one bit in into a big shift
> register plus a few control lines.
> If the microcontroller uses the same voltage (say, 3.3V) you
> don't need anything more than routing the lines between
> controller and display. (Except, maybe, a few pull up or
> down resistors)
>
> --
> Roberto Waltman
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
>
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2324 is a reply to message #2323 ] |
Wed, 20 July 2011 08:40 |
Roberto Waltman
Messages: 45
Registered: August 2010 |
Member |
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|
Cris Harrison wrote:
> Unfortunately you picked a display that is categorized as 'dumb'.
Yes, I should have mentioned this. Some of these displays do not have a
character generator, which should be implemented in software.
[ For some applications this may be an advantage, because it allows
limited graphic capabilities. ]
> Lets look at a Max6955 this beast has a I2C interface (nice), and can
> drive 16 7-segment, 8 14 or 16-segment or 128 discrete LEDs,...
Thanks for the tip, interesting chip.
>From a brief look at the data sheet it looks to me that connecting the
micro to the '6955 and then the '6955 to the actual display is more
complicated than using one of the Avago displays.
But, I am not concerned about the SW development tasks you mentioned.
(That's what I do every day for a living.)
For somebody without a software background and/or who wants to get it
running quickly, this may be a better choice.
--
Roberto Waltman.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Solid-state LED matrix help [message #2326 is a reply to message #2324 ] |
Thu, 21 July 2011 19:55 |
dabigboy
Messages: 212
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Roberto Waltman <fsim@rwaltman.com> wrote:
> Yes, I should have mentioned this. Some of these displays do not have a
> character generator, which should be implemented in software.
> [ For some applications this may be an advantage, because it allows
> limited graphic capabilities. ]
<snip>
>
> But, I am not concerned about the SW development tasks you mentioned.
> (That's what I do every day for a living.)
> For somebody without a software background and/or who wants to get it
> running quickly, this may be a better choice.
Well wait a second here....I don't mind software work, I've written an entire EFIS display in Python and OpenGL. My concern is having to design and build my own intermediary microcontroller and writing assembly code or something like that for it. If all I have to do with my existing LED chips are to connect them directly to something like an Arduino and then write the Arduino's code to drive each individual LED ("dot"), that would probably be fine. I could, for instance, write a software layer for the Arduino that accepts ASCII characters and then turns on the appropriate LEDs on the chip.
Customer graphics would be nice anyway because I'm going to need a few special items, like the degrees symbol and the direct-to (DTO) arrow.
Matt
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