Home » Simpit Discussion » simpits-tech » [simpits-tech] collimated display progress...
| [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2182] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 07:35  |
 Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
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Pic taken last night:
http://www.geneb.org/images/framework_gene.jpg
The assembly went as easily as I'd hoped. With any luck, we'll be able to
start work on the new screen & support "spider" this coming weekend.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2185 is a reply to message #2183 ] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 16:39  |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
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On Sun, 1 May 2011, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>> Pic taken last night:
>>
>> http://www.geneb.org/images/framework_gene.jpg
>>
>> The assembly went as easily as I'd hoped. With any luck, we'll be able to
>> start work on the new screen & support "spider" this coming weekend.
>>
>> g.
>
> Larger than life! Can't wait to see the finished project Gene, I am very
> interested in possibly using your design when I upgrade from my desktop
> panel unit and build with a real fuselage.
>
We still haven't contacted SEOS/Rockwell-Collins to find out if they'll
grant hobbyists a free license for the features their patents cover. If
they don't want to grant a free license, then no plans will be made
available, sorry!
> Btw, nice cow print chair. :P
>
Thanks. I bought it at Office Depot something like 10 years ago. They
called the print "Palamino", but I still call it my Cow Chair. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2186 is a reply to message #2184 ] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 16:45 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
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On Sun, 1 May 2011, Roy Coates wrote:
> On 1 May 2011 15:35, Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Pic taken last night:
>>
>> http://www.geneb.org/images/framework_gene.jpg
>>
>> The assembly went as easily as I'd hoped. With any luck, we'll be able to
>> start work on the new screen & support "spider" this coming weekend.
>>
>
> As always - very awesome stuff. Look forward to seeing the completed
> system.
>
Thanks. Wayne has done a great job in making it easy to put together.
With the exception of a few WTF? moments, it's been very smooth.
I loved the look on his face when we got the framework on the table. It's
really hitting home how much space it's going to eat up. There's one
thing to "know" by sterile measurment and something else entirely when
it's in your face. :) He figures he'll have 6" of clearance between the
projectors and the ceiling in his office. I'm glad I don't have such
issues. *laughs*
The other interesting part to the project will be putting together a
suitable cockpit once this monster is finished. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2187 is a reply to message #2185 ] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 17:30 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 May 2011, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
> > ---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> >> Pic taken last night:
> >>
> >> http://www.geneb.org/images/framework_gene.jpg
> >>
> >> The assembly went as easily as I'd hoped. With any luck, we'll be able to
> >> start work on the new screen & support "spider" this coming weekend.
> >>
> >> g.
> >
> > Larger than life! Can't wait to see the finished project Gene, I am very
> > interested in possibly using your design when I upgrade from my desktop
> > panel unit and build with a real fuselage.
> >
> We still haven't contacted SEOS/Rockwell-Collins to find out if they'll
> grant hobbyists a free license for the features their patents cover. If
> they don't want to grant a free license, then no plans will be made
> available, sorry!
Oh bummer! Did you gather some detailed info directly from their patents? Or are you simply influenced by systems of theirs you've seen first-hand? Either way, at the very least you have put this basic idea on the table for us home builders and proven its validity, which is enough to make me pursue the same sort of rig, even if detailed plans are not available.
Still, I suspect if you push the non-commercial aspect of our pits when you contact them, they will be nice about it. We'z all just good ol' boys playing with big ol' toys in our garages, no crazy commercial training going on or anything. :)
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2188 is a reply to message #2187 ] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 18:37 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
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On Sun, 1 May 2011, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>> We still haven't contacted SEOS/Rockwell-Collins to find out if they'll
>> grant hobbyists a free license for the features their patents cover. If
>> they don't want to grant a free license, then no plans will be made
>> available, sorry!
>
> Oh bummer! Did you gather some detailed info directly from their
> patents? Or are you simply influenced by systems of theirs you've seen
> first-hand? Either way, at the very least you have put this basic idea
> on the table for us home builders and proven its validity, which is
> enough to make me pursue the same sort of rig, even if detailed plans
> are not available.
>
The "ears" that we use are patented by SEOS (they apparently were
purchased by Rockwell-Collins in the last few years).
BTW, here's a video walk-around that I just did. Excuse the stupid
narration. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdOnzHXpyNk
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2189 is a reply to message #2187 ] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 18:54 |
Rick Davis
Messages: 128
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member |
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> > We still haven't contacted SEOS/Rockwell-Collins to find out if they'll
> grant hobbyists a free license for the features their patents cover. If
> they don't want to grant a free license, then no plans will be made
> available, sorry!
Guys. I've had patents, and I have patents. Canada, USA and International.
Don't worry about these things. A patent is only valuable for protection
against someone stealing your idea (plans) for commercial gain. I can
reverse engineer as many Blackberries as I like in my basement, as long as I
am not trying to sell them.
And oddly, all patent details are kept under wrap, untill they are approved.
Then everyone has access to all the very fine details of it all. Use them,
play with them, improve them as you will, just don't go about selling the
technology unless you are certain you have improved it by at least 25%.
Them's the rules.
Anyway, just thought I'd chime in on the patent thing. Don't worry about it.
At all.
R
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2190 is a reply to message #2189 ] |
Sun, 01 May 2011 19:08 |
Rick Davis
Messages: 128
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Also,
One of the key features of a patent's success, is that " it must be an
improvement in technology or a process, which would not be common knowledge
by those in that particular field." So ... you have to be able to "awe" your
peers. In any case, I have to re-iterate. No one at Rockwell is going to
come swooping down on you with a law suit, because you copied their design
to build a simulator. They may actually be impressed.
Start building aircraft and trying to sell them to Abu Dhabi? Different
movie.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Davis" <rd@ns.sympatico.ca>
To: "Simulator Cockpit Builder's List" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress...
>> > We still haven't contacted SEOS/Rockwell-Collins to find out if they'll
>> grant hobbyists a free license for the features their patents cover. If
>> they don't want to grant a free license, then no plans will be made
>> available, sorry!
>
> Guys. I've had patents, and I have patents. Canada, USA and International.
> Don't worry about these things. A patent is only valuable for protection
> against someone stealing your idea (plans) for commercial gain. I can
> reverse engineer as many Blackberries as I like in my basement, as long as
> I
> am not trying to sell them.
>
> And oddly, all patent details are kept under wrap, untill they are
> approved.
> Then everyone has access to all the very fine details of it all. Use them,
> play with them, improve them as you will, just don't go about selling the
> technology unless you are certain you have improved it by at least 25%.
> Them's the rules.
>
> Anyway, just thought I'd chime in on the patent thing. Don't worry about
> it.
> At all.
>
> R
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2191 is a reply to message #2189 ] |
Mon, 02 May 2011 06:14 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
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On Sun, 1 May 2011, Rick Davis wrote:
>>> We still haven't contacted SEOS/Rockwell-Collins to find out if they'll
>> grant hobbyists a free license for the features their patents cover. If
>> they don't want to grant a free license, then no plans will be made
>> available, sorry!
>
> Guys. I've had patents, and I have patents. Canada, USA and International.
> Don't worry about these things. A patent is only valuable for protection
> against someone stealing your idea (plans) for commercial gain. I can
> reverse engineer as many Blackberries as I like in my basement, as long as I
> am not trying to sell them.
>
The problem doesn't come up when you're making a one-off for yourself
(even though there is no "fair use" for patents), but it gets really,
really sticky when you publish plans for others to duplicate your work.
While we might _technically_ be able to get away with it, all it would
take is one overzealous jr. partner in a law firm that wants to make an
example of us.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2192 is a reply to message #2191 ] |
Mon, 02 May 2011 07:43 |
Rick Davis
Messages: 128
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member |
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>>
> The problem doesn't come up when you're making a one-off for yourself
> (even though there is no "fair use" for patents), but it gets really,
> really sticky when you publish plans for others to duplicate your work.
> While we might _technically_ be able to get away with it, all it would
> take is one overzealous jr. partner in a law firm that wants to make an
> example of us.
>
> g.
>
I totally get what you're saying Gene, but plans in themselves are not
patentable. They are comprised of paper and ink, neither of which has any
proprietary value. Now you are talking about copyrights. Patents in Canada
and the USA are enforceable for 20 years. (Pharmaceuticals 25), A copyright
on the other hand is good for the life of the author plus 50 years. (or the
assignee in the case of a company ) And here is where the waters get murky.
If you photocopied someone's plans, that would clearly be a copyright
infringement, but (and here is where it gets creative) you could sit and
convey to me over the phone all the dimensions down to the finest detail,
and from that I could sit me down at my drafting table and draw a set of
plans based upon that information. Who do you suppose is the copyright owner
of my plans? Well, it is me. If you draw up a set of plans for something,
when you have never even see the original plans, it can hardly be considered
copying.
Obviously, having filled lawyers pockets with my money getting patents and
copyrights over there years, I don't condone people trying to skirt around
patent protection, however, I don't think what you are doing even enters the
grey area. None of the materials you are using have any protection (plywood
etc), so we are down to shapes. You cannot patent a shape, any more than you
can patent a color or an idea.
A key example is a guy here who wanted to patent a fiberglass stop sign.
It's a great idea. They don't rot or rust and they are not metal. But, the
fiberglass is not patentable. It's been around for more than 50 years. And
an Octagon is not patentable, nor is the word stop. So, you cutting plywood
into shapes, which when assembled a certain way produce yet another shape,
is still a shape. Doesn't matter if you fly it or throw your laundry in it.
Anyhoo, I find patent and copyright law very interesting. (I guess you can
tell) :)
R
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2193 is a reply to message #2192 ] |
Mon, 02 May 2011 08:01 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
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On Mon, 2 May 2011, Rick Davis wrote:
>>>
>> The problem doesn't come up when you're making a one-off for yourself
>> (even though there is no "fair use" for patents), but it gets really,
>> really sticky when you publish plans for others to duplicate your work.
>> While we might _technically_ be able to get away with it, all it would
>> take is one overzealous jr. partner in a law firm that wants to make an
>> example of us.
>>
>> g.
>>
>
> I totally get what you're saying Gene, but plans in themselves are not
> patentable. They are comprised of paper and ink, neither of which has any
Rick, the issue is that we built the mechanical device described in the
patent in order to solve the same issue that the patent covered. While
we're pretty sure that we're safe in building this for our own use,
publishing plans so anyone can build it might cross the line. This would
become a real problem if someone were to build it and then either try to
sell it or use it in a commercial setting. You figure that every
commercial flight simulator that uses a collimated display utilizes this
technique (it provides extra material in order to allow the mirror to
properly form) in their visual systems. I suspect that
SEOS/Rockwell-Collins makes quite a penny on licensing that patent.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2194 is a reply to message #2183 ] |
Mon, 02 May 2011 08:03 |
delor lauchang
Messages: 52
Registered: January 2009 |
Member |
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Always working on an awesome piece, can't wait to see it in flight.
Thanks for sharing,
Delor
On Sun, May 1, 2011 at 3:03 PM, <dabigboy@cox.net> wrote:
>
> ---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> > Pic taken last night:
> >
> > http://www.geneb.org/images/framework_gene.jpg
> >
> > The assembly went as easily as I'd hoped. With any luck, we'll be able
> to
> > start work on the new screen & support "spider" this coming weekend.
> >
> > g.
>
> Larger than life! Can't wait to see the finished project Gene, I am very
> interested in possibly using your design when I upgrade from my desktop
> panel unit and build with a real fuselage.
>
> Btw, nice cow print chair. :P
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above
> page. Thanks!
>
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2195 is a reply to message #2194 ] |
Mon, 02 May 2011 08:10 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
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On Mon, 2 May 2011, delor lauchang wrote:
> Always working on an awesome piece, can't wait to see it in flight.
>
Thanks Delor. We're getting pretty antsy too. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
_______________________________________________
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| Re: [simpits-tech] collimated display progress... [message #2197 is a reply to message #2196 ] |
Mon, 02 May 2011 14:23 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Mon, 2 May 2011, Roy Coates wrote:
> On 2 May 2011 02:37, Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>> The "ears" that we use are patented by SEOS (they apparently were
>> purchased by Rockwell-Collins in the last few years).
>>
>>
> Just be grateful it's not Apple that has the patent!
>
> In the very^9 unlikely event that RC came after you for a patent violation,
> the first course of action would be "oi! Stop That!" - at which point you
> would, and they'd go home.
>
> If you were making money out of their patent - different story.
>
Yeah, we're being very careful about that - I'm hoping that we'll be able
to get some kind of "free" license. Otherwise we can publish the major
drawings, point the pictures of the "ears", and then go "here's the patent
#, figure it out" :)
>> BTW, here's a video walk-around that I just did. Excuse the stupid
>> narration. :)
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdOnzHXpyNk
>>
>
> Very cool - as we've come to expect :)
>
Thanks. I'm dying to see it done. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
_______________________________________________
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