Home » Simpit Discussion » simpits-tech » [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting?
| [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2723] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 00:06  |
dabigboy Messages: 212 Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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I have run into a slight dilemma.......all the lighting on the radios/instruments I've managed to get my hands on seem to require 5v AC, rather than DC. One of the units is that TA 7900 Omega CDU I mentioned a couple days ago, and it has integral lighting for the keypad, so changing bulbs/circuits really isn't an option. What's the best way to get 5v AC? Is there a simple/safe way to reduce the AC coming out of the wall? What frequency should it be at? 400hz like the instruments?
Ideally I'd like to make an inverter that runs off 12v DC.....my electronics skills are very limited, I *may* be able to modify one of the 12vdc to 120vac circuits available online to only put out 5v, but I still don't know what frequency it's supposed to be. I sure don't want to toast the lighting on my real airplane gear.
I even tried ebay for aircraft inverters...plenty of 14v, 28,, 30v, 115v, etc, but no 5v. Makes me wonder how it's actually driven in real aircraft.
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2724 is a reply to message #2723 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 00:36   |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
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On 3/2/2012 2:06 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> I have run into a slight dilemma.......all the lighting on the radios/instruments I've managed to get my hands on seem to require 5v AC, rather than DC. One of the units is that TA 7900 Omega CDU I mentioned a couple days ago, and it has integral lighting for the keypad, so changing bulbs/circuits really isn't an option. What's the best way to get 5v AC? Is there a simple/safe way to reduce the AC coming out of the wall? What frequency should it be at? 400hz like the instruments?
>
> Ideally I'd like to make an inverter that runs off 12v DC.....my electronics skills are very limited, I *may* be able to modify one of the 12vdc to 120vac circuits available online to only put out 5v, but I still don't know what frequency it's supposed to be. I sure don't want to toast the lighting on my real airplane gear.
>
> I even tried ebay for aircraft inverters...plenty of 14v, 28,, 30v, 115v, etc, but no 5v. Makes me wonder how it's actually driven in real aircraft.
>
> Matt
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Ok Matt
dont sweat the small stuff..
if you have incandescent lamps (little light bulbs) than it doesn't
matter AC/DC..
on the other side if they really want AC is because they probably
convert it inside the unit.
if you have LEDs they take 5vdc most of the time.. be sure that you
are using a 220 ohm resistor, to act as a current limiter for the LED...
oh btw I have the second installment of the 410 interface, hot off the
press..
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/arinc-410-subsys tem/
enjoy
Cris
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2725 is a reply to message #2723 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 00:39   |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |

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On 3/2/2012 2:06 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> I have run into a slight dilemma.......all the lighting on the radios/instruments I've managed to get my hands on seem to require 5v AC, rather than DC. One of the units is that TA 7900 Omega CDU I mentioned a couple days ago, and it has integral lighting for the keypad, so changing bulbs/circuits really isn't an option. What's the best way to get 5v AC? Is there a simple/safe way to reduce the AC coming out of the wall? What frequency should it be at? 400hz like the instruments?
>
> Ideally I'd like to make an inverter that runs off 12v DC.....my electronics skills are very limited, I *may* be able to modify one of the 12vdc to 120vac circuits available online to only put out 5v, but I still don't know what frequency it's supposed to be. I sure don't want to toast the lighting on my real airplane gear.
>
> I even tried ebay for aircraft inverters...plenty of 14v, 28,, 30v, 115v, etc, but no 5v. Makes me wonder how it's actually driven in real aircraft.
SIC.. in real birds not light planes, every thing is driven by a
generator one on each engine..
the output is always AC so all they need is a transformer..
later Cris H.
>
> Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2726 is a reply to message #2723 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 00:42   |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |

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On 3/2/2012 2:06 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> I have run into a slight dilemma.......all the lighting on the radios/instruments I've managed to get my hands on seem to require 5v AC, rather than DC. One of the units is that TA 7900 Omega CDU I mentioned a couple days ago, and it has integral lighting for the keypad, so changing bulbs/circuits really isn't an option. What's the best way to get 5v AC? Is there a simple/safe way to reduce the AC coming out of the wall?
Yes a small transformer...
> What frequency should it be at? 400hz like the instruments?
Your guess is as good as mine..
So get the print for the CDU it should be floating out there...
>
> Ideally I'd like to make an inverter that runs off 12v DC.....my electronics skills are very limited, I *may* be able to modify one of the 12vdc to 120vac circuits available online to only put out 5v, but I still don't know what frequency it's supposed to be. I sure don't want to toast the lighting on my real airplane gear.
>
> I even tried ebay for aircraft inverters...plenty of 14v, 28,, 30v, 115v, etc, but no 5v. Makes me wonder how it's actually driven in real aircraft.
>
> Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2727 is a reply to message #2723 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 01:08   |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |

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On 3/2/2012 2:06 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> I have run into a slight dilemma.......all the lighting on the radios/instruments I've managed to get my hands on seem to require 5v AC, rather than DC. One of the units is that TA 7900 Omega CDU I mentioned a couple days ago, and it has integral lighting for the keypad, so changing bulbs/circuits really isn't an option. What's the best way to get 5v AC? Is there a simple/safe way to reduce the AC coming out of the wall? What frequency should it be at? 400hz like the instruments?
>
> Ideally I'd like to make an inverter that runs off 12v DC.....my electronics skills are very limited, I *may* be able to modify one of the 12vdc to 120vac circuits available online to only put out 5v, but I still don't know what frequency it's supposed to be. I sure don't want to toast the lighting on my real airplane gear.
>
> I even tried ebay for aircraft inverters...plenty of 14v, 28,, 30v, 115v, etc, but no 5v. Makes me wonder how it's actually driven in real aircraft.
>
> Matt
> _______________________________________________
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> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
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>
one more thought.. try and get the manual for the beast.. Tracor is now
BE Systems in VA 703-312-6100
if all else fails... Get out the cutters and make an abortion!
looks like from the shape that it is a CRT needs very high voltages
(1500v) try and replace it with a LCD and then figure out the keyboard..
look at my posts..
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/arduino2/
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/category/ps2-keybaord/
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2728 is a reply to message #2723 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 08:52   |
Gene Buckle Messages: 1083 Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member Administrator |
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> I have run into a slight dilemma.......all the lighting on the
> radios/instruments I've managed to get my hands on seem to require 5v
> AC, rather than DC. One of the units is that TA 7900 Omega CDU I
> mentioned a couple days ago, and it has integral lighting for the
> keypad, so changing bulbs/circuits really isn't an option. What's the
> best way to get 5v AC? Is there a simple/safe way to reduce the AC
> coming out of the wall? What frequency should it be at? 400hz like the
> instruments?
Matt, unless there is specific circuitry between the power input and the
lamp that _requires_ AC, you can run them on 5v DC with no problems.
Bulbs don't care about ac/dc. LEDs on the other hand _require_ DC.
Note that aircraft panel lighting systems are dimmable by using a variable
transformer that takes 28v AC @400Hz in and can output 0..5V AC out.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2729 is a reply to message #2725 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 12:08   |
dabigboy Messages: 212 Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Cris Harrison <phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/2/2012 2:06 AM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> > I even tried ebay for aircraft inverters...plenty of 14v, 28,, 30v, 115v, etc, but no 5v. Makes me wonder how it's actually driven in real aircraft.
> SIC.. in real birds not light planes, every thing is driven by a
> generator one on each engine..
> the output is always AC so all they need is a transformer..
> later Cris H.
True that, but I was under the impression the generators still went to a DC bus first that could be run from the generator OR battery voltage, so things would keep spinning (for a while) in the event of generator failure?
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2730 is a reply to message #2724 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 12:17   |
dabigboy Messages: 212 Registered: September 2010 |
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---- Cris Harrison <phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> if you have LEDs they take 5vdc most of the time.. be sure that you
> are using a 220 ohm resistor, to act as a current limiter for the LED...
Thanks for the info Cris. I'm not really sure what's inside the front panel of the 7900 CDU, which is why I'm nervous about playing with it. I doubt it's LED due to the age of the unit, but who knows?
> oh btw I have the second installment of the 410 interface, hot off the
> press..
> http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/arinc-410-subsys tem/
>
> enjoy
> Cris
Nice, I shall eagerly await part 3. :) As a matter of fact I am about ready to work on the audio portion of my NAV head....I will have a dedicated PC with multiple sound cards to handle NAV audio, ADF, warnings, ATC (for VATSIM and such) etc on separate channels. Annnnd I just got a transponder and another nav/com unit off ebay in addition to the CDU. Of course the multiple channel thing will require some sort of sound layer that supports multiple devices....I think I've found one for Python that fits the bill.
Man, I would be totally sunk if I had not bothered to pick up programming a few years back. It has been THE key to my simulator endeavors. :)
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2732 is a reply to message #2730 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 12:42   |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |

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On 3/2/2012 2:17 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Cris Harrison<phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> if you have LEDs they take 5vdc most of the time.. be sure that you
>> are using a 220 ohm resistor, to act as a current limiter for the LED...
> Thanks for the info Cris. I'm not really sure what's inside the front panel of the 7900 CDU, which is why I'm nervous about playing with it. I doubt it's LED due to the age of the unit, but who knows?
>
>> oh btw I have the second installment of the 410 interface, hot off the
>> press..
>> http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/arinc-410-subsys tem/
>>
>> enjoy
>> Cris
> Nice, I shall eagerly await part 3. :) As a matter of fact I am about ready to work on the audio portion of my NAV head....I will have a dedicated PC with multiple sound cards to handle NAV audio, ADF, warnings, ATC (for VATSIM and such) etc on separate channels. Annnnd I just got a transponder and another nav/com unit off ebay in addition to the CDU. Of course the multiple channel thing will require some sort of sound layer that supports multiple devices....I think I've found one for Python that fits the bill.
CONGRATS!! sounds great...
but I have a better idea for the audio... hehe..
for multipul audio sources use usb dongles.. cheep!
1. you can tune the radio chanel.. ie twist the knobs/... so then you
know 4 pices of the puzzel..
a. your altatude b. the radios location lat, lon c. your lat, lon d.
the frequency.. (if your on the LAX field you should not be able to tune
the JFK field.. LOL aka MSFS!!
so with simple 3d geometry.. you know if you can hear the radio.. the
output of this (dme) feeds the dme display and the TO-FROM flags on the
indicator and if the radio is OFF or out of range the Failure flag then
will be displayed..
If you want you can also generate your favorate 400hz noise aswell ...
so all of your inputs have to go into the mixer ... they call it a audio
unit you can use some op amps for mixer.. and you have the volume
controls already on the radio head.... also if done correctly you can
chain the units, and do cool other things...
oh btw all the radio station both nav & comm are in a data base with
call sign, lat, lon and other crud..
... makes life ezay... :)
if its NAV you get DME ie you have to do the slant range computaion. and
you know the call sign for the morse..
that two requirements..
BTW if found the pilots guide for the CDU :)
https://www.bendixking.com/servlet/com.honeywell.aes.utility .PDFDownLoadServlet?FileName=/TechPubs/repository/006-08407- 0000_0.pdf
if you have problems with this I will send you a copy to your email..
Cris
> Man, I would be totally sunk if I had not bothered to pick up programming a few years back. It has been THE key to my simulator endeavors. :)
>
> Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2734 is a reply to message #2731 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 13:51   |
Gene Buckle Messages: 1083 Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member Administrator |
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On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
> ---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Mar 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>>
>> Matt, unless there is specific circuitry between the power input and the
>> lamp that _requires_ AC, you can run them on 5v DC with no problems.
>> Bulbs don't care about ac/dc. LEDs on the other hand _require_ DC.
>
> Awesome, I will give it a shot then. I did try 5v DC on my Gables navcom, and nothing happened....perhaps I missed a pin or something (this was before I hackerized the connector), or maybe the weak adapter I was using did not deliver sufficient current.
>
>> Note that aircraft panel lighting systems are dimmable by using a variable
>> transformer that takes 28v AC @400Hz in and can output 0..5V AC out.
>
> That would explain why all my diagrams and placards on radios etc
> indicate 5v AC needed for lighting. So what happens if I just vary DC
> voltage? Nothing?
>
It should work the same. Remember, incandescent bulbs don't care about
the polarity of the power, nor the waveform. Incandescent lamps actually
last longer under DC because the element isn't being stressed at 60 (or in
this case 400)Hz.
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Buying desktop hardware and installing a server OS doesn't make a
server-class system any more than sitting in a puddle makes you a duck.
[Cipher in a.s.r]
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| Re: [simpits-tech] 5v AC for lighting? [message #2735 is a reply to message #2732 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 17:49   |
dabigboy Messages: 212 Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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---- Cris Harrison <phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
> CONGRATS!! sounds great...
> but I have a better idea for the audio... hehe..
> for multipul audio sources use usb dongles.. cheep!
They work well, but as it happens I have a pile of SoundBlaster (and clones) PCI sound cards I got free from scrap PCs. :)
> 1. you can tune the radio chanel.. ie twist the knobs/... so then you
> know 4 pices of the puzzel..
<snip>
> oh btw all the radio station both nav & comm are in a data base with
> call sign, lat, lon and other crud..
> ... makes life ezay... :)
You are working on a system like this, right? It sounds interesting. At the moment I'm not concerned about computer-generated ATC enough to mess with it, but I do plan on implementing something for VATSIM, and also for instructor audio (for limited ATC, and of course, "instructing").
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] New Toy for the KingAir B200 sim... [message #2737 is a reply to message #2736 ] |
Fri, 02 March 2012 18:16   |
LawnDart Messages: 95 Registered: March 2009 Location: Seattle, WA |
Member |
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...and just picked THESE up for a song! $25/pair
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Sperry-ARC-Nav-Head-C-1048B-and-Head- C-1038B-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqR,!i!E8Y1GchYLBPPrRcE8Vw~~60_58.JPG
I've been out of simming for awhile but really getting the itch to get
back into my KingAir. A Kitchen remodel turned my man-cave into a
storage area for the new kitchen stuff..
Last year I gutted a GoFlight 166 radio to make it fit this style radio
head... Should be a perfect fit....
On 3/2/2012 5:54 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Ray Sotkiewicz<raysot@comcast.net> wrote:
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/160750448412?item=160750448412&v iewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr
>> < http://www.ebay.com/itm/160750448412?item=160750448412&v iewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:MOTORS:1123&vxp=mtr>
>>
>> I've always wanted a chronometer and this is perfect for my KingAir 200
>> project. Should be a cinch to power it up. Just takes 28vdc, and a few
>> other signal lines denoting 'Battery On' and 'Engine Running'
>>
>> These things are $520 brand new...
> There are all kinds of cool things on ebay. :) I have a similar Davtron digital clock that was given (!!) to me after it was pulled from a plane due to functional issues...basically I can set time, but can't use any of the timer functions. It works, for now.
>
> I will hold off on the fancy new one for the time being......$175 is a great deal, but still, that's three Arduino megas right there! :)
>
> Matt
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Ray
www.EllieAvionics.com
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| Re: [simpits-tech] New Toy for the KingAir B200 sim... [message #2739 is a reply to message #2738 ] |
Sat, 03 March 2012 15:58   |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |

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On 3/2/2012 11:14 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Ray Sotkiewicz<raysot@comcast.net> wrote:
>> ...and just picked THESE up for a song! $25/pair
>>
>> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Sperry-ARC-Nav-Head-C-1048B-and-Head- C-1038B-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqR,!i!E8Y1GchYLBPPrRcE8Vw~~60_58.JPG
> NICE! Hummm, I think those were on my watch list! I could have sworn they went for more, maybe it was a different auction.
>
>> I've been out of simming for awhile but really getting the itch to get
>> back into my KingAir. A Kitchen remodel turned my man-cave into a
>> storage area for the new kitchen stuff..
>>
>> Last year I gutted a GoFlight 166 radio to make it fit this style radio
>> head... Should be a perfect fit....
> Hold up a minute, I bet those control heads use the ARINC 401 spec Cris and I have been dealing with.
duh hey Matt - Brain Fart or Typo ARINC410 not ARINC401
Cris
> Before you go putting the lesser GoFlight stuff into them, have you considered just hooking them into an Arduino (or even a joystick controller like the Leo Bodnar boards) and thus keeping the high-dollar displays and rotaries? Someone here recently (I think it was Roberto) posted a video of a similar Collins head hooking into a few LEDs to demonstrate the ARINC 401 operation....it's just a big fancy switch, even on the digital units it appears all the display stuff happens entirely within the head itself.
>
> Any pics of the King Air?
>
> Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] New Toy for the KingAir B200 sim... [message #2740 is a reply to message #2739 ] |
Sat, 03 March 2012 16:13   |
LawnDart Messages: 95 Registered: March 2009 Location: Seattle, WA |
Member |
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Wow if I could keep the guts and make them work, that would really be something... Don LaFontaine just finished writing a serial library to pull FSUIPC data into an Arduino, so maybe that is something worth looking into... I sure would love to use those displays... if they are still operable
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cris Harrison" <phoenixcomm@gmail.com>
To: "Simulator Cockpit Builder's List" <simpits-tech@simpits.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 3:58:37 PM
Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] New Toy for the KingAir B200 sim...
On 3/2/2012 11:14 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Ray Sotkiewicz<raysot@comcast.net> wrote:
>> ...and just picked THESE up for a song! $25/pair
>>
>> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Sperry-ARC-Nav-Head-C-1048B-and-Head- C-1038B-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqR,!i!E8Y1GchYLBPPrRcE8Vw~~60_58.JPG
> NICE! Hummm, I think those were on my watch list! I could have sworn they went for more, maybe it was a different auction.
>
>> I've been out of simming for awhile but really getting the itch to get
>> back into my KingAir. A Kitchen remodel turned my man-cave into a
>> storage area for the new kitchen stuff..
>>
>> Last year I gutted a GoFlight 166 radio to make it fit this style radio
>> head... Should be a perfect fit....
> Hold up a minute, I bet those control heads use the ARINC 401 spec Cris and I have been dealing with.
duh hey Matt - Brain Fart or Typo ARINC410 not ARINC401
Cris
> Before you go putting the lesser GoFlight stuff into them, have you considered just hooking them into an Arduino (or even a joystick controller like the Leo Bodnar boards) and thus keeping the high-dollar displays and rotaries? Someone here recently (I think it was Roberto) posted a video of a similar Collins head hooking into a few LEDs to demonstrate the ARINC 401 operation....it's just a big fancy switch, even on the digital units it appears all the display stuff happens entirely within the head itself.
>
> Any pics of the King Air?
>
> Matt
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>
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Ray
www.EllieAvionics.com
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| Re: [simpits-tech] More Info [message #2742 is a reply to message #2735 ] |
Sun, 04 March 2012 09:49  |
phoenixcomm Messages: 164 Registered: January 2009 Location: Fort Worth, Tx |
Senior Member |

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On 3/2/2012 7:49 PM, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> ---- Cris Harrison<phoenixcomm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> CONGRATS!! sounds great...
>> but I have a better idea for the audio... hehe..
>> for multipul audio sources use usb dongles.. cheep!
> They work well, but as it happens I have a pile of SoundBlaster (and clones) PCI sound cards I got free from scrap PCs. :)
>
>> 1. you can tune the radio chanel.. ie twist the knobs/... so then you
>> know 4 pices of the puzzel..
> <snip>
>> oh btw all the radio station both nav& comm are in a data base with
>> call sign, lat, lon and other crud..
>> ... makes life ezay... :)
Ok here it is the complete Radio System...
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/arinc-410interfa ce/
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/arinc-410-subsys tem/
http://phoenixcomm.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/arinc-410-subsys tem-audio-routing/
enjoy it....
Cris H.
phoenixcomm.wordpress.com
> You are working on a system like this, right? It sounds interesting. At the moment I'm not concerned about computer-generated ATC enough to mess with it, but I do plan on implementing something for VATSIM, and also for instructor audio (for limited ATC, and of course, "instructing").
>
> Matt
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> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above page. Thanks!
>
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