Home » Simpit Discussion » simpits-tech » [simpits-tech] Display news...
| [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2612] |
Sun, 29 January 2012 08:11  |
 Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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A couple of weeks ago I chased down a lead and found a Mylar vendor that
can supply material up to 124" wide. It's _cheap_. For example, a 100 foot
roll of .5mil @ 96" wide is roughly $200 shipped.
We've also come up with a way around the patent issue - instead of the
curved "ears" at the ends of the mirror, it can be more square - something
shown as "prior-art" in the patent, but a feature we couldn't use because
we couldn't get Mylar wide enough.
What this means is that we're now open to making plans & short kits
available to people.
We're looking at two "reference" designs.
The first would be large enough to accommodate standard GA aircraft right
around Cessna 152-172 size up to something around a Lear or Cessna
Citation.
The second would be a "big iron" display that could be used with cockpits
around the size of the Boeing 737.
If there is enough interest, we'll go ahead and get the design work done
and I'll build Inventor models so you can see what they'll look like.
However, we're not going to build prototypes for either one of them until
there is enough commercial interest. This doesn't mean a bunch of folks
going, "Hey! I'd buy that!", it's some number of people (say 5 for this
example) willing and able (and actually do!) put down a down payment for a
short kit.
We're doing this because building one of these things takes a ton of time
and effort when you're writing the manual for it at the same time. The
materials aren't cheap either - the prototypes and kit parts will be in
18mm and 12mm Russian Birch - it's a high quality material. It's not the
kind of endeavor that either one of us can fund ourselves on the hope that
someone might buy one someday.
A "short kit" is typically parts that most folks can't make themselves -
all the shaped parts, etc. Any dimensional lumber, fasteners, Mylar,
projectors, etc. would be supplied by the builder.
We'll also look into providing the vacuum management system - this would
likely consist of an Arduino Uno style "shield" and the parts to build a
servo controlled bypass gate similar to what you've seen in our videos.
Servo not included.
There will definitely be size issues you're going to need to be aware of
if you're going to build one of these. Our single-seat version is a tight
fit in a room with a 9' ceiling. You can just about be guaranteed that the
GA display is going to be bigger than that and I shudder to think how much
shop space that 7x7 display is going to eat up.
Because of the size & scope of this thing, don't expect any concrete
results out of us until April-ish.
I'm going to re-post this to various places in order to make sure the
folks that are interested see it.
Thanks all!
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2613 is a reply to message #2612 ] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 00:37  |
brian
Messages: 77
Registered: August 2010 |
Member |
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*dances in the street*
:D
Great news, Gene!
I'm very anxious for the Inventor drawings. I imagine I'll be able to
scale down even your GA version for the Mercury pit. Someday... ;)
Brian
On 1/30/2012 1:11 AM, Gene Buckle wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I chased down a lead and found a Mylar vendor that
> can supply material up to 124" wide. It's _cheap_. For example, a 100 foot
> roll of .5mil @ 96" wide is roughly $200 shipped.
>
> We've also come up with a way around the patent issue - instead of the
> curved "ears" at the ends of the mirror, it can be more square - something
> shown as "prior-art" in the patent, but a feature we couldn't use because
> we couldn't get Mylar wide enough.
>
> What this means is that we're now open to making plans& short kits
> available to people.
>
> We're looking at two "reference" designs.
>
> The first would be large enough to accommodate standard GA aircraft right
> around Cessna 152-172 size up to something around a Lear or Cessna
> Citation.
>
> The second would be a "big iron" display that could be used with cockpits
> around the size of the Boeing 737.
>
> If there is enough interest, we'll go ahead and get the design work done
> and I'll build Inventor models so you can see what they'll look like.
>
> However, we're not going to build prototypes for either one of them until
> there is enough commercial interest. This doesn't mean a bunch of folks
> going, "Hey! I'd buy that!", it's some number of people (say 5 for this
> example) willing and able (and actually do!) put down a down payment for a
> short kit.
> We're doing this because building one of these things takes a ton of time
> and effort when you're writing the manual for it at the same time. The
> materials aren't cheap either - the prototypes and kit parts will be in
> 18mm and 12mm Russian Birch - it's a high quality material. It's not the
> kind of endeavor that either one of us can fund ourselves on the hope that
> someone might buy one someday.
>
> A "short kit" is typically parts that most folks can't make themselves -
> all the shaped parts, etc. Any dimensional lumber, fasteners, Mylar,
> projectors, etc. would be supplied by the builder.
>
> We'll also look into providing the vacuum management system - this would
> likely consist of an Arduino Uno style "shield" and the parts to build a
> servo controlled bypass gate similar to what you've seen in our videos.
> Servo not included.
>
> There will definitely be size issues you're going to need to be aware of
> if you're going to build one of these. Our single-seat version is a tight
> fit in a room with a 9' ceiling. You can just about be guaranteed that the
> GA display is going to be bigger than that and I shudder to think how much
> shop space that 7x7 display is going to eat up.
>
> Because of the size& scope of this thing, don't expect any concrete
> results out of us until April-ish.
>
> I'm going to re-post this to various places in order to make sure the
> folks that are interested see it.
>
> Thanks all!
>
> g.
>
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2614 is a reply to message #2612 ] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 01:41 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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Oh my yes.....Gene, you do realize this is pretty much the holy grail of visual systems! How timely......I have been sorta bashing my head in frustration this weekend because I can't figure out a good visual system for my sim....I have almost everything else either built, in progress, or at least a good idea in my head. I was just thinking "man, if only Gene would sell kits of his visual system". :)
Any idea the price range on a short kit for the GA version? Mine would end up in front of a Learjet eventually. My main restriction is I just don't have a way to fabricate the parts.
Semi-related note: tonight my wife casually gave her blessing/acceptance for sticking a Learjet in the garage instead of insisting I save up and build another shop for it....yeeehaw! :)
Matt
---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> A couple of weeks ago I chased down a lead and found a Mylar vendor that
> can supply material up to 124" wide. It's _cheap_. For example, a 100 foot
> roll of .5mil @ 96" wide is roughly $200 shipped.
>
> We've also come up with a way around the patent issue - instead of the
> curved "ears" at the ends of the mirror, it can be more square - something
> shown as "prior-art" in the patent, but a feature we couldn't use because
> we couldn't get Mylar wide enough.
>
> What this means is that we're now open to making plans & short kits
> available to people.
>
> We're looking at two "reference" designs.
>
> The first would be large enough to accommodate standard GA aircraft right
> around Cessna 152-172 size up to something around a Lear or Cessna
> Citation.
>
> The second would be a "big iron" display that could be used with cockpits
> around the size of the Boeing 737.
>
> If there is enough interest, we'll go ahead and get the design work done
> and I'll build Inventor models so you can see what they'll look like.
>
> However, we're not going to build prototypes for either one of them until
> there is enough commercial interest. This doesn't mean a bunch of folks
> going, "Hey! I'd buy that!", it's some number of people (say 5 for this
> example) willing and able (and actually do!) put down a down payment for a
> short kit.
> We're doing this because building one of these things takes a ton of time
> and effort when you're writing the manual for it at the same time. The
> materials aren't cheap either - the prototypes and kit parts will be in
> 18mm and 12mm Russian Birch - it's a high quality material. It's not the
> kind of endeavor that either one of us can fund ourselves on the hope that
> someone might buy one someday.
>
> A "short kit" is typically parts that most folks can't make themselves -
> all the shaped parts, etc. Any dimensional lumber, fasteners, Mylar,
> projectors, etc. would be supplied by the builder.
>
> We'll also look into providing the vacuum management system - this would
> likely consist of an Arduino Uno style "shield" and the parts to build a
> servo controlled bypass gate similar to what you've seen in our videos.
> Servo not included.
>
> There will definitely be size issues you're going to need to be aware of
> if you're going to build one of these. Our single-seat version is a tight
> fit in a room with a 9' ceiling. You can just about be guaranteed that the
> GA display is going to be bigger than that and I shudder to think how much
> shop space that 7x7 display is going to eat up.
>
> Because of the size & scope of this thing, don't expect any concrete
> results out of us until April-ish.
>
> I'm going to re-post this to various places in order to make sure the
> folks that are interested see it.
>
> Thanks all!
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>
> Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
> minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
> holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
> by the clean end.
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2615 is a reply to message #2613 ] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 04:28 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Brian Sikkema wrote:
> *dances in the street*
>
> :D
>
> Great news, Gene!
>
> I'm very anxious for the Inventor drawings. I imagine I'll be able to
> scale down even your GA version for the Mercury pit. Someday... ;)
>
Hehehe. I figured a 15" LCD panel should be big enough to cover the only
hole you have to look out through. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2616 is a reply to message #2614 ] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 04:35 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Any idea the price range on a short kit for the GA version? Mine would
> end up in front of a Learjet eventually. My main restriction is I just
> don't have a way to fabricate the parts.
>
No idea Matt. The kit will use 18mm and 12mm Russian Birch throughout, so
the cost of materials will be a bit higher than the one we've already
built.
> Semi-related note: tonight my wife casually gave her blessing/acceptance
> for sticking a Learjet in the garage instead of insisting I save up and
> build another shop for it....yeeehaw! :)
You've got it all wrong. Change "instead of" to "while the new shop is
being built". :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2618 is a reply to message #2617 ] |
Mon, 30 January 2012 12:31 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Mon, 30 Jan 2012, Roy Coates wrote:
> On 29 January 2012 16:11, Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> However, we're not going to build prototypes for either one of them until
>> there is enough commercial interest. This doesn't mean a bunch of folks
>> going, "Hey! I'd buy that!", it's some number of people (say 5 for this
>> example) willing and able (and actually do!) put down a down payment for a
>> short kit.
>>
>
> Once you can give us some idea of the pricing, I might be able to get our
> place to stump up for a couple of kits. We could certainly use them.
>
Sure thing Roy. You're talking GA size, right?
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Display news... [message #2620 is a reply to message #2619 ] |
Tue, 31 January 2012 04:11 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, Roy Coates wrote:
> On 30 January 2012 20:31, Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>> Sure thing Roy. You're talking GA size, right?
>>
>>
> I can see uses for our PA38 (GA), R22 (GA), Typhoon (GA) and J41 (Bigger
> than GA)
>
How does the J41 cockpit compare in size to a Lear 45?
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2622 is a reply to message #2619 ] |
Tue, 31 January 2012 23:35 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
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Hey Gene, in my research on visual systems, I came across a common issue with curved/spherical screens and projectors. It has been noted that even when you use software to warp and edge-blend the projectors for a curved screen, areas further from the center of the screen go out of focus. From the videos of your system, it doesn't appear this is an issue, although I can't really tell for sure just from vids.....I would guess that the relatively minor curve of your front-projection screen keeps the focus issue to a minimum (another big advantage of your system's use of a spherical mirror as opposed to projecting directly onto a main screen), but I am curious: has this been an issue for you?
For folks projecting directly onto a curved screen, I have always thought that it would be better to use some sort of lens on the projector that would warp the image, as opposed to using software. I even saw one sim builder mention this on the X-Plane.org forums, he had a curved screen and mentioned just using a lens on the front of the projector to warp things properly...I asked him about it but never got a reply.
It appears that the lens I seek is a simple fisheye/wide-angle lens, and that planetariums actually use this concept for their projection systems. It makes a lot more sense to use natural optics for the angle correction, as opposed to taking away pixels from the image and trying to shove it into shape with software. Plus you wouldn't need to spend $500+ on warping software. :)
Similarly, for people with cylindrical screens, a cylindrical mirror could be used (I think?) whose angle is equal to the angle of the main screen.
Obviously such a lens for Gene's system would be a little more exotic, since the little front projection screen above the pilot complicates things a bit. I think you would need something that is like a fisheye lens in reverse.
Brainstorming. Fun.......now I need to find my card reader so I can upload pics of my Jeppesen/PFC yoke that I hackerized into my sim. :)
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2623 is a reply to message #2622 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 04:33 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
> Hey Gene, in my research on visual systems, I came across a common issue
> with curved/spherical screens and projectors. It has been noted that
> even when you use software to warp and edge-blend the projectors for a
> curved screen, areas further from the center of the screen go out of
> focus. From the videos of your system, it doesn't appear this is an
> issue, although I can't really tell for sure just from vids.....I would
> guess that the relatively minor curve of your front-projection screen
> keeps the focus issue to a minimum (another big advantage of your
> system's use of a spherical mirror as opposed to projecting directly
> onto a main screen), but I am curious: has this been an issue for you?
>
I haven't noticed any focus issues myself. The curve of the screen that
each projector covers is pretty shallow, so that helps.
> For folks projecting directly onto a curved screen, I have always
> thought that it would be better to use some sort of lens on the
> projector that would warp the image, as opposed to using software. I
> even saw one sim builder mention this on the X-Plane.org forums, he had
> a curved screen and mentioned just using a lens on the front of the
> projector to warp things properly...I asked him about it but never got a
> reply.
>
There may be a way to do this, but I don't know how. Wayne might have an
idea or two.
> It appears that the lens I seek is a simple fisheye/wide-angle lens, and
> that planetariums actually use this concept for their projection
> systems. It makes a lot more sense to use natural optics for the angle
> correction, as opposed to taking away pixels from the image and trying
> to shove it into shape with software. Plus you wouldn't need to spend
> $500+ on warping software. :)
>
A lens that will properly distort the projector output will likely cost
you a LOT more than $500. It would have to be custom-ground, and would
likely require more than one.
> Similarly, for people with cylindrical screens, a cylindrical mirror
> could be used (I think?) whose angle is equal to the angle of the main
> screen.
>
If they're using a fold mirror, then yes. There's a guy out there that'
built a Jet Ranger sim from a written off airframe and he uses a curved
fold mirror against a curved display screen. It's pretty slick.
> Brainstorming. Fun.......now I need to find my card reader so I can
> upload pics of my Jeppesen/PFC yoke that I hackerized into my sim. :)
Neat!
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2624 is a reply to message #2623 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 07:03 |
wledzian
Messages: 18
Registered: November 2010
Location: Auburn, Wa |
Junior Member |
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|
To fully correct an image with lenses alone would require specialized (read "$$$$") optics. A simple mirror would, however, get you fairly close, the main benefit being fewer wasted pixels. You'd still need the warping software to get the rest of the way.
There are focus issues with our setup if you're specifically looking for them, but they're fairly minor. They're primarily in the form of a slight misalignment between the RGB channels towards the edges, and a small amount of focal blur, generally less than 1 pixel worth. It's really not noticeable once everything is aligned and blended. This was a consideration when choosing our projectors; in order to have minimum skew at the joints, we wanted a long-throw projector. In order to have maximum depth of field (distance at which focus is acceptable), we wanted a small lens.
If we had used short-throw projectors, we'd have had to mount them much closer to the screen, with the result of more severe focal issues and strong skew at the edges.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2625 is a reply to message #2624 ] |
Wed, 01 February 2012 08:00 |
Frank Riedel
Messages: 58
Registered: January 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Hi G. Congrats... please keep me informed for your release....
What Beamers are you using ??
Regards
Frank
2012/2/1 Wayne Ledzian <wledzian1@comcast.net>
>
>
> To fully correct an image with lenses alone would require specialized
> (read "$$$$") optics. A simple mirror would, however, get you fairly
> close, the main benefit being fewer wasted pixels. You'd still need the
> warping software to get the rest of the way.
>
> There are focus issues with our setup if you're specifically looking for
> them, but they're fairly minor. They're primarily in the form of a slight
> misalignment between the RGB channels towards the edges, and a small amount
> of focal blur, generally less than 1 pixel worth. It's really not
> noticeable once everything is aligned and blended. This was a
> consideration when choosing our projectors; in order to have minimum skew
> at the joints, we wanted a long-throw projector. In order to have maximum
> depth of field (distance at which focus is acceptable), we wanted a small
> lens.
>
> If we had used short-throw projectors, we'd have had to mount them much
> closer to the screen, with the result of more severe focal issues and
> strong skew at the edges.
> _______________________________________________
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--
*Kindly Regards*
*Rezultat*
*Frank Riedel*
Cell: +45 2424 4169
www.rezultat.dk
www.f16simulator.com
www.youfly.nu
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www.youtube.com/REZULTATdk
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2630 is a reply to message #2629 ] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 12:02 |
Sean Galbraith
Messages: 251
Registered: February 2009 |
Senior Member |
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1.2 rocks... :)
SeanG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-
> bounces@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle
> Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 3:11 a.m.
> To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea
>
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2012, Frank Riedel wrote:
>
> > Thx Wayne
> > Did you guys play around with Prepar3D ??
> >
> It's on the list. :)
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>
> Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical
> minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which
> holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a
turd
> by the clean end.
> _______________________________________________
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2632 is a reply to message #2631 ] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 12:36 |
Sean Galbraith
Messages: 251
Registered: February 2009 |
Senior Member |
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|
Well the step up from 1.1* to 1.2* was huge.. so I imagine that the 2.*
build should be awesome. We have a visit from one of the LM team
soon... looking forward to that :)
P3D + 3 x 1080p projectors + Sol7 + Curved Screen = :)
SeanG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-
> bounces@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle
> Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 7:08 a.m.
> To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea
>
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote:
>
> > 1.2 rocks... :)
> >
> It's my understanding that the 2.0 release of p3d is going to be DX10
> compliant among other improvements. THAT's the build I wanna see. :)
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>
> Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical
> minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which
> holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a
turd
> by the clean end.
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2635 is a reply to message #2634 ] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 11:24 |
Gene Buckle
Messages: 1067
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member
Administrator |
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|
On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote:
>>> P3D + 3 x 1080p projectors + Sol7 + Curved Screen = :)
>>
>> I'll have to shuffle along at 1280x800. Sol7 rocks though. :)
>
> [Smug_Look] Can't beat 5760*1080 res ;-) But yes, Sol7 does rock..
> Hate to think how many copies I've bought and installed now... they must
> love me! <lol>
>
I just bet. :)
g.
--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical
minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd
by the clean end.
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2638 is a reply to message #2637 ] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 14:11 |
Sean Galbraith
Messages: 251
Registered: February 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
Lol... I'll have a talk to the boss and .... <slap>... nope, that didn't
work!
Actually I need to share a pic of the "Test rig"... which shall be known
as "Bill".. made out of all the old parts I have hoarded over the years.
On the up side it's running P3D and 3x HD ;-)
SeanG
> -----Original Message-----
> From: simpits-tech-bounces@simpits.org [mailto:simpits-tech-
> bounces@simpits.org] On Behalf Of Gene Buckle
> Sent: Friday, 3 February 2012 8:48 a.m.
> To: Simulator Cockpit Builder's List
> Subject: Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea
>
> On Fri, 3 Feb 2012, Sean Galbraith wrote:
>
> >>>
> >> I just bet. :)
> >>
> >
> > Just got to add "Gene's cross-cockpit collimated visuals" to the mix
and
> > I'll be in sim heaven ;-)
>
> I'll trade you a flight deck for one. *laughs*
>
> g.
>
> --
> Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
> http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
> http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
> Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies.
>
> ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
> A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
> http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_!
>
> Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical
> minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which
> holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a
turd
> by the clean end.
> _______________________________________________
> Simpits-tech mailing list
> Simpits-tech@simpits.org
> http://www.simpits.org/mailman/listinfo/simpits-tech
> To unsubscribe, please see the instructions at the bottom of the above
> page. Thanks!
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2641 is a reply to message #2623 ] |
Thu, 02 February 2012 19:05 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
|
|
---- Gene Buckle <geneb@deltasoft.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jan 2012, dabigboy@cox.net wrote:
>
> > Similarly, for people with cylindrical screens, a cylindrical mirror
> > could be used (I think?) whose angle is equal to the angle of the main
> > screen.
> >
> If they're using a fold mirror, then yes. There's a guy out there that'
> built a Jet Ranger sim from a written off airframe and he uses a curved
> fold mirror against a curved display screen. It's pretty slick.
D'oh, I meant to say "cylindrical lens". Ergo, something that would distort the image evenly in only one plane, so that it could be properly front-projected onto a cylindrical screen. But you are talking about bouncing the projected image off a curved mirror which then projects onto the screen, no? Now I have to go google "fold mirrors"! :)
Matt
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| Re: [simpits-tech] Visual system questions (Gene) and an idea [message #2645 is a reply to message #2644 ] |
Fri, 03 February 2012 21:00 |
dabigboy
Messages: 208
Registered: September 2010 |
Senior Member |
|
|
---- Roy Coates <roy@flightlab.liv.ac.uk> wrote:
> On 3 February 2012 03:05, <dabigboy@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > D'oh, I meant to say "cylindrical lens". Ergo, something that would
> > distort the image evenly in only one plane, so that it could be properly
> > front-projected onto a cylindrical screen. But you are talking about
> > bouncing the projected image off a curved mirror which then projects onto
> > the screen, no? Now I have to go google "fold mirrors"! :)
> >
>
> You've got me thinking now. I'm sure the projectors in our main sim have
> lenses mounted in front of them. Three projectors that display onto the
> inside of a spherical chamber.
>
> Will take camera ...
>
> Roy.
Hehe! I would love to see the results of your experiments!
Ran across a goldmine of info on this subject:
http://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/
One of the ideas offered here (and in fact, something the author has done many times, it appears) is using a spherical "safety mirror" (the ones typically mounted on ceilings and such, so that you can see around the corners or behind you, for instance) to bounce the projected image onto a spherical screen. The author indicates that warping software is still required, though........which leaves me to believe the only real advantage of the mirror is that it expands the FOV of the projector without losing so much focus and brightness (since the projector can be much closer to the screen, essentially). It may also reduce the amount of correction needed, but the author doesn't mention this. I wonder if a fisheye lens would be the same story. or would it work without warping software?
At any rate, I just found out that the Fly Elise people have some cheap warping software:
http://fly.elise-ng.net/
One product is even X-Plane-centric....it's a display designer which comes with an X-Plane plugin. You "design" your display in the software, and it spits out a config file for the X-Plane plugin which properly warps the graphics via an OpenGL matrix that is injected into the sim via the plugin SDK. Using an XP plugin actually occurred to me the other day, but I'm afraid my math skills are not up to the task.
One thing that particularly excited me was the screenshot of the cylindrical screen with a spherical mirror......while I'm dubious about my ability to make a good spherical screen, I think I could handle a nice cylindrical one, and the safety mirrors are cheap and plentiful. Then all I would need is three good projectors (ok, there goes the budget), and $65 for the screen designer app......hmmmm! :)
Matt
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